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  • It all started with a cough.......

    I'll just open with the fact that no matter how badly I may bash GM for the design flaws of the V6 F-Body, I LOVE my car and all F-Bodies..... With that out of the way, I'm hoping someone has some input on this situation I'm in.

    Firstly, I drive my car like it was stolen. I've been the only driver and owner of my 02 Camaro, and I've given her nothing but premium grade products (I play hard, but keep my car well maintained). Anyways, I changed the spark plugs and wires at about 90K and everything has been fine until recently.

    Recently, I had to replace my heater core assembly (came with new tensioner pulley) because the plastic elbows broke and blew all the coolant in my radiator evacuated from the front of the engine block. When I took the unit off, I removed my alternator, air box, baffles, and the entire throttle assembly. The reason I had to replace my heater core assembly was because it had stress cracks.. (I'd love to beat the genius who decided that plastic and aluminum would be a great for an iron block engine that can handle twice the temperature).

    I replaced the damaged parts and put a new throttle body gasket on. I reconnected everything, and she ran great. I never cleaned the throttle body because I didn't have the time or money to invest in a new MAF sensor and gasket (it was a little dirty, but that's to be expected now that she has 156k miles on her). After driving the car about 400 miles, I noticed what seemed to be a cough that occurred randomly during driving. Up until now, I chalked it up to be watery gasoline.

    My SES light was on and has been since the replacement of my fuel pump (replaced at about 140k miles). Since the replacement of the pump, I've had no issues except for my fuel gage randomly reading completely full or completely empty (it jumps back and forth between the two and started happening about 1k miles after the install. Prior to that, I had accurate readings on the gage.). The SES light code indicated that my tank pressure sensor was malfunctioning. I have not replaced that sensor yet.

    Anyways, one day I ran the car completely out of fuel. A friend brought me 1/4 gallon of gas and I assume it was old because my car tried to start and I was getting only partial combustion and then no combustion at all. I added another 5 gallons of fresh gas and she turned right over. So, another possibility is that my car didn't have enough fuel to start at that time. Since then, I have ran another tank and a half of 93-octane fuel through her.

    Since that incident, my car has been occasionally coughing. At first it started off as a very quick, random, skip or cough. As I drove more, the cough became more frequent, but I thought that I may have a little of that bad gas coming through and just kept driving. Today, out of nowhere, my car started acting as if it was misfiring. It has a very rough idle now, and is sputtering at even the slightest attempt to accelerate. I tried to sport around in my car once or twice (hoping to force what ever this was through). When I attempted to throttle into it, the car sputtered (gaining speed, but at a good bit slower than normal) and then my SES light went from solid illumination to a blinking illumination and then it returned to solid illumination.

    I have not pulled the plugs yet, or seen what new codes set off during my attempt to absolve this issue. I don't think the comp is in closed loop mode, because this doesn't feel like a computer controlled reduction in power (like when you hit the speed limiter). It honestly feels like I'm running off of 5 cylinders, having some sort of misfire, have water in my tank, have a bad injector, or something like that.

    Tomorrow, I'll go to AutoZone and have the OBD2 reader see what new codes have popped up from this. I will post more once I have those codes, but in the meantime; does anyone have an idea of what this could be or had a similar experience? Any advice, info, or experiences would be greatly appreciated. My Camaro is a 2002 35th Anniversary F-Body with a manual 5-speed transmission. She currently has 156k miles on her, still shiny, and just as sexy as the day I bought her brand new.

    Thanks,

    Nick (Darkshadow188)
    \" Eat Rice With Pushrods \"<br /><br />My Car and What I Did <a href=\"http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1\" target=\"_blank\">http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1</a>

  • #2
    Re: It all started with a cough.......

    The flashing SES light indicates a misfire, so you were correct about that. We should be able to help much more after you get the codes pulled and posted.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: It all started with a cough.......

      The code you are looking for is a P030- code, with the 4th digit being the cylinder number of the misfire. From there you can check plugs wires and coils to eliminate any issues. Have you tried any fuel treatments since you put the bad gas in it?

      Honestly a quarter of a gallon in a full tank shouldn't even make a difference. My car sat for over a year with the same fuel in it, and the day I put a new engine in it fired right off.
      Team NoVa

      2000 Firebird- Intake, Pacesetters, !cat, full 2.5 to flowcrapster, 1.9 rockers, LS6 springs and Intense modded retainers, WS6 speedlines, T/A bumpers and hatch, 5 spd swapped, SOON TO BE nitrous'd and cammed.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: It all started with a cough.......

        definitely check plugs, wires, coils, injectors; you're on the right path so far. get the code pulled and see what it is before you start spending money tracking the issue down.
        1998 Chevy Camaro 3.8
        1997 Chevy Camaro Z28 - SOLD 7-23-2011
        1996 Chevy Camaro Z28
        2001 Pontiac Firebird Formula

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: It all started with a cough.......

          ^exactly what he said. Diagnose the issue before you spend money, one time I spent $130 on a distributor, coil, plugs, wire, cap and button to fix a misfire, still had it. Then I went and spent the $.95 on a fuel filter and...no more misfire.
          Team NoVa

          2000 Firebird- Intake, Pacesetters, !cat, full 2.5 to flowcrapster, 1.9 rockers, LS6 springs and Intense modded retainers, WS6 speedlines, T/A bumpers and hatch, 5 spd swapped, SOON TO BE nitrous'd and cammed.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: It all started with a cough.......

            **UPDATE**

            I scanned the codes this morning and did a little more driving to replicate the issue. Here's what I got:

            P0452
            P0453 x2

            I attempted to clear all codes, but the P0453 code would not remove. Accordig to the codes, this indicates a faulty Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor. Here's what's really strange though, during the "warm up period" the symptoms are not replicated. Once the vehicle reaches it's stock op temp of 195F, the previously stated symptoms return. Any attempt to throttle produces the same sputtering symptom. At WOT, the ramp rate if far slower than normal. No smoke or odors are present at any stage from idle to WOT. I'll let the car cool down and pull the plugs to see if I can get a better idea of whats going on. Any ideas? Thanks for your input everyone, I appreciate the help and ideas.
            \" Eat Rice With Pushrods \"<br /><br />My Car and What I Did <a href=\"http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1\" target=\"_blank\">http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1</a>

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: It all started with a cough.......

              Your evap hose came off or you broke it when you changed the fuel pump.

              You will need to reconnect the hose our replace it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: It all started with a cough.......

                Would something like a disconnected evap hose cause symptoms like what I'm experiencing? I did, at one point, replace the evap solenoid and everything apears to be tight in the engine bay. I'm assuming I'll have to drop the tank again to resolve this issue? Thanks for the advice, I'll give it a try either way! Any other ideas as to what could be causing these symptoms? or why it happens when the car reaches temp?

                Thanks everyone,

                Nick (Darkshadow188)
                \" Eat Rice With Pushrods \"<br /><br />My Car and What I Did <a href=\"http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1\" target=\"_blank\">http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1</a>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: It all started with a cough.......

                  Originally posted by Darkshadow188 View Post
                  or why it happens when the car reaches temp?

                  Not familiar with the specifics of your problem, but what you are decribing sounds like a closed loop / open loop specific issue. When starting, the car runs off of a set of predetermined "open loop" settings, generally running richer and not relying on all the engine sensors. Once the engine warms up, it jumps into "closed loop" and uses a different data table utilizing all the sensors for optimum fuel economy and performance.

                  What the others are saying and the code you pulled seem consistent with your symptom of fine on start-up (open loop) and symptoms emerging upon warm-up (closed loop).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: It all started with a cough.......

                    I can't thank you all enough for all the input. It did, however, dawn on me that I left out a detail concerning my voltage regulator on my alternator. I have an aftermarket 170A alternator. Recently the voltage regulator has been going in and out on me (meaning the alternator will stop charging and then kick on... it has a nice little supercharger like whine, lol). Anyways, while driving today I noticed that my car started, but I wasn't getting a charge, so I drove it around and played a little hard. She put out.. (I have a new Red Top), while sporting around I had just glanced down when, at the same time, my alternator kicked on and I experienced the cough. After a little more sporting the alternator kicked off, the voltage dropped and again the cough. I disconnected the alternate engine power (35 farad quick discharge cap) so no interference could cross in from my stereo power storage (which I believe helped keep me afloat), and with no alt power the stuttering and coughing began until the alt kicked in. I feel kinda dumb posting this and forgetting that issue.

                    I wonder if any damage could have been done. I saw some thermal damage on the charge wire for the alt... but I wonder if it could damage the coils? All fuses are fine and all other wires are intact and properly insulated.

                    Sorry for the bother guys and gals... this has got to be the most embarrassing -right in your face- lack of common sense- de de der- postings I've written.... but maybe others will learn and laugh.

                    Thanks Everyone!
                    Nick (Darkshadow188)
                    \" Eat Rice With Pushrods \"<br /><br />My Car and What I Did <a href=\"http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1\" target=\"_blank\">http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1</a>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: It all started with a cough.......

                      I retract my last statement... still coughing. I have to pull the car back appart anywyas becuase of a bad replacement tensioner pulley, so I think I'll give her a good cleaning.... once it stops raining here in FL, or untill I can find a shop to lift my car... at which point I would fix that evap code (tank pressure sensor).

                      My initial thought was an open loop closed loop situation, but when the comp isn't showing the codes... what's a guy to do? I swear if they didn't make this car so darn sexy, I'd drop some thermite on the car and say bye....but I just love her too damn much, lol : )
                      \" Eat Rice With Pushrods \"<br /><br />My Car and What I Did <a href=\"http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1\" target=\"_blank\">http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1</a>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: It all started with a cough.......

                        I hate to say this, but I have experienced the exact same systoms (with my S-10.) It started doing exactly what you are describing about 1k after I replaced the fuel pump. It wound up being a defective fuel pump. Take your car and have the fuel pressure tested (make sure they test it throughout the rpm range.) You can also rent one from autozone for free, you just have to pay like a $150 refundable deposit. You should have 48-55 psi (ignition ON) 3-10 psi loss at idle.

                        If that is not the problem, well, it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: It all started with a cough.......

                          Thanks Scott. I'm wondering if it isn't the pump myself, but if the issue is ittermittent I wonder if I would see anything bad. I replaced the whole unit in jan of 09. Today, wot, the car acted like an animal (but she wasnt up to temp)... I think I have a quick fix.... 160DEG thermo, lol. If the engine cant get hot enough for the problem then im good.... until the actual problem leaves me stranded. If it is the pump Im just going to drop a walboro in there and call it a day.

                          Sadly with all this rain I have no place to drop the tank, change my tank pressure sensor, look at the evap hose, or any of that. Hopefully I can repair the pump, if that's the issue. I know the sensor is bad becuase the comp refused to clear the code even after clearing it 2x.

                          Thanks for the advice bro
                          \" Eat Rice With Pushrods \"<br /><br />My Car and What I Did <a href=\"http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1\" target=\"_blank\">http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1</a>

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: It all started with a cough.......

                            **Update**

                            Engine is still doing the same thing. It looks like I could use a new set of spark plug wires and that I may be getting a couple of arcs (from either the cables or the coils).

                            New SES Code Readout:

                            P0102 X1

                            P0453 X5

                            P0452 X5

                            Total SES codes: 11.


                            I was thinking of replacing the coils with MSD coils, but I can't seem to find the ones they used to make as a direct replacement for our car (as a performance part). I was also going to use MSD wires. My NGK Plugs are still good. These items along with a new MAF should fix it all. Does anyone know where I can find those msd coils?

                            Thanks for the help
                            \" Eat Rice With Pushrods \"<br /><br />My Car and What I Did <a href=\"http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1\" target=\"_blank\">http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127313/1</a>

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