Who are the REAL hardcore L36 guys? Lets talk Specs.

[Magnus]

So who where likes to talk cam specs, valve lift, clearances and tolerances?

So far I only know of Michael Huff and I.

We have been talkign for months about what kind of lift I should go with on my custom grind, but nobody has any kind of lift specs regarding clearances.

Here is what we know:

Stock:
182/190 115 LS 111 IC
Camshaft Intake Lift: 0.250 in
Camshaft Exhaust Lift: 0.255 in
Intake Lift: 0.413 in
Exhaust Lift: 0.408 in

SuperSix:
210/214 112 LS 108 IC (RiceCooker)
Camshaft Intake Lift: 0.281 in
Camshaft Exhaust Lift: 0.281 in
Intake Lift: 0.450 in
Exhaust Lift: 0.450 in

Stock Rocker Ratio: 1.6:1

With stock springs, its unsafe to go past .450 valve lift. To fix this, I have purchased springs from Thrasher that will allow me up to .506 lift safely.

I was looking to go with 214/214 112 .500/.500 but is there clearance for .500 @ 214 degrees of duration? I am not to fond of the idea of a valve-piston conflict.

So who has pulled off their heads and knows TDC Piston to deck clearance? Or who knows Valve clearances for the stock setup?

I doubt anyone knows this but I decided to post this just to feed the minds of the curious. If we had an advanced tech section, this would be a great post for that secton. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I believe Thrasher might have some of this info but I still haven't been able to get a hold of them.

One of Thrashers resellers told me he sold 206/212 114 .480/.487 to an L36 guy.

As soon as I find any of this info out, I'll keep you guys posted and hopefully the tech database will be updated with this info.

But there has to be someone out there with more specifics info on this as well. What about GM mechanics or ... anyone at all?

The joy of being a test guy. [img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img]

[Blac Drop Top]

Mike Levy over @ www.f-body.net seems very knowledgeable regarding L36/L34 spec's. I also bet strange trp knows.

[Dominic]

Are you going to use a custom cam, or some form of an upgraded longer arm ratio rocker to increase lift?

Too much lift can be bad I've heard as well.

(just getting some background knowledge...) [img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img]

[Magnus]

I am going custom cam.

I got off the phone with Trasher. I like their new management. I spoke with Maurice and he was VERY helpful. Spent a good chunk of his time to help me and asnwer my questions even though I had an L36.

He told me...
Thrasher works with L67's and not with L36's at the current time. They may try to do something with L36's in the future when time becomes available.

They also have an L67 cam in testing. Its a drag racing cam that has these specs:
222/222 Duration
.354/.354 Camshaft Lift

He also said that the L67 Rocker Arm ratio is 1.55:1 or 1.51:1 depending on year. Which makes me wonder, what is our real ratio?

.354 * 1.55 = .5487 valve lift :eek:

So why can't I go with .500 valve lift and mill the heads .030"... that would come to .530 of clearance still .0187 less than the L67 spec.

He also told me the piston to deck clearance on an L67 at TDC is +.020 (20 thousandths).

I really want to run a 214/214 112 .500/.500 [img]smile.gif[/img]

Just some more FYI.

[Deuce Bigs]

be sure and post what you find out cuz even though i'll prolly go with a ls1 swap i still got a little bit left in me wanting to turbo it and if so i'll be going with about the same specs as you but with only 114 LS instead of 112 ls. i can't really help with your questions though unless the answers are in my helms books but i'm still trying to find out the price of a t60(dual entry, tangential mount) before i even bother to look. also anyone know where i can ask about custom bellhouse fabrication for say a t56?

[Bird_Of_Prey]

Deuce, I hate to get off topic in Maggie's post here, but a T60 is a fuggin BIG turbo!!! That means its gonna take alot to spool up. Might wanna look a bit smaller. I know of at least one typhoon with a cam and a 20G turbo in the high 11's with good tuning and another in the high 12's with a PT51 and crappy tuning. Food for thought

Tom

[Bird_Of_Prey]

Oh yeah, isn't Keithy sexy when he talks specs? [img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img]

[Bene]

Maggie Keithy = Who is this person? ;)

[Deuce Bigs]

hAAAAAYYY Birdie. heh heh

yeah it's a big damn turbo and i'm looking at ceramic bearings to help speed it up a bit. you know the saying "go big or go home" if i want at least 425-450 but closer to 500hp i'm gonna need it. i'm hoping the longer spool up will also help save the tranny and rear end on launch(at least for awhile). anyway i was looking at swapping to a ls1 but this could end up being a bit cheaper after all since it looks like we may have some tuning capabilities although i'll still need a custom job. still researching though

[Fin]

I'd be interested in learning some more about cams. I've learned some, but it seems to be one of the most complicated things to learn about the internals of a motor.

I'm interested in a cam, since I'm looking to possibly get some head & intake work done down the road sometime ;)

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

And who is installing this cam for you? Hard to do without your precious tools being so far away. [img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img] Not that those two sockets from 1945 are classified as tools. :D

---------------------------------------------
But anyway.
So, you want longer intake duration and more lift. The optimum intake closing point would occur just as the air stops flowing into the chamber. So, I'll ask you:

1. How do you know where that occurs?
---------------------------------------------
I'm sure you know you will change the overlap when you change the duration.

2. Do you know the intake and exhaust efficiency and how well the heads flow from the intake towards the exhaust with both valves slightly open?
---------------------------------------------
There is a reason why dual pattern cams are being made. If the engine has equal airflow potential then single pattern is fine. Dual pattern cams are used to balance flow through the engine. Not only that, but the actuall lobe shape is specifically optimized for it's intended use. The intake profiles minimize seat timing and maximize area. The exhaust profiles promote scavenging, increased signal and maximum airflow. Extreme grind cams respond and idle like smaller cams due to the steep rams. That also wears out vavletrain more.

3. Do you know the airflow potential of your exhaust compared to your intake? Will it be balanced with your cam? What profiles are you looking for?
---------------------------------------------
Engine combos are extremely sensitive to the overlap region. Not only is the duration and overlap triangle important but it's overall shape.

4. So to summarize, tell us how you came to your final specs and precisely tailored the cams delicate characteristics to fit the exact purpose of your goals?
--------------------------------------------------

Cams take a great deal of design to work properly.

Why don't you reread the link again. I fixed the spelling errors. [img]smile.gif[/img]

http://ubb.mfba.org/cgi-bin/ultimate...c&f=2&t=001880

Good luck man. Hope you don't screw up your daily driver. It sucks without a car. Trust me. ;)

[Magnus]

I'm feelin the V6 love.

Tom, you write all those specs down, or are you already on the phone with a cam grinder. ;)

Dom, oh jeeze. Thats a really long post.

1. I do not know where that occurs, but its a regrind of a stock cam so everything SHOULD match up. [img]smile.gif[/img] *i hope* lol

2. No. I'll be fine. Stop worrying me.

3. Lots of potential. Potential is there. I will be ok. [img]smile.gif[/img]

4. Royce and Mike run 210/214 112 cams. They both say upper RPM power is great. Tom ground in 4 degrees of advance for potential nitrous use. I don't like nitrous so I don't need the extra duration. They also run .450 lift.. I want more lift. So .500 should be good. I should have clearance and will double check on installation.

Yes I will be installing the parts with the help of this new craftsman tool box I picked up. ;)

214/214 110: overlap = -6
214/214 112: overlap = -10 - Me
210/214 112: overlap = -12 - Royce
214/218/114: overlap = -12

Royce's PCM is happy with -12.. so Mine SHOULD be happy with -10.. and plus, his heads are milled .010" mine will be milled .030" so I will also have more compression.

Royce has this setup:
210/214 112 .450/450 9.6:1
My setup will be this:
214/214 112 .500/.500 9.8:1 or 10.0:1

Not THAT drastic of a change.

Honestly Dom, you wanna know how I got my specs? I rented a lotto machine. ;)

[Deuce Bigs]

i'm prolly looking at 210/214 114 .500/.500 and using gtp internals so 8.5:1. gonna use a T60 turbo with 0.68, tangential mount, dual entry, turbine housing. forward facing 1.5" headers. prolly get a chrome moly k-member for the extra room for piping. looking at ATI's design for ls1 intercoolers.

[Magnus]

Just some more FYI:

From BadSSEi over at clubgp.com:
"The published specification is 1.60:1 for the L36 and L67 (all years). We have measured MANY of these, and found them all to be between 1.56:1 and 1.64:1."

Did some calculations with a 1.62 rocker ratio
182/190 .250/.255 = .408/.413 Stock
210/214 .281/.281 = .450/.450 Royce and Michael Huff
214/214 .309/.309 = .500/.500
222/222 .354/.354 = .573/.573 Thrasher L67 cam

- Keith

[RedbirdV6]

http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/in.htm


Mr Wavey says hello to everyone [img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img]