Attn: Dee - damn she's never around when you need her.

[Deuce Bigs]

j/k about the girl thing. ;) hey man just wondering where you got the material from for your tb spacer? i want to make an intake spacer and i'm trying to figure out whats the best material to use. i think you used delrin right? and how much was it?

[Magnus]

Must be her time of the month. ;)

You bloating much Dee? ;)

[DEE97GTP]

If you can't tell, I am giving you the silent treatment!!!!!!!!!!
;)

I have an email address you know [img]tongue.gif[/img] , it is sometimes better than buried in some message.

Anyways, I checked into the costs. It is delrin. You are probably going to want to go around 1/2" to make it worthwhile and prevent warping. If you want to buy a piece big enough for your intake, it looks like it will run you around $80 + shipping.

I thought about making these, but almost all will have to be done by hand due to the design, and I don't have a CNC mill. I have a pretty repeatable setup for the TB spacer, but not for this thing. Given all that, there is no way I can sell these for less than ZZP(bolts, gaskets, rtv, my time, and even buying in bulk). Also, there is a significant investment risk for me to try all this without preorders. It seems only a couple people are interested anyway. Not to mention beta testing issues, product support.

www.mcmaster.com is one of many places that sell delrin.

DEE

[Deuce Bigs]

i did email you about a week ago.....no reply hmmmm??? anyway cool. yeah i figured this would be for me only. if i can make it and have good results maye i'll see about making a few but yeah they'd prolly cost about as much as zzp's at least

[John D.]

I've heard of the spacers being made out of phenolic (sp??)material as well. I think that's what it was called.

[AllTheGoodNamesAreGone]

God I feal like a moron now..
sorry again Dee

~Billy

[Deuce Bigs]

hahaha don't worry about it man. you ain't the first.

[Dominic]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by John D.:
I've heard of the spacers being made out of phenolic (sp??)material as well. I think that's what it was called.<hr></blockquote>

A Phenolic sheet is a hard, dense material made by applying heat and pressure to layers of paper or glass cloth impregnated with synthetic resin. These layers of laminations are usually of cellulose paper, cotton fabrics, synthetic yarn fabrics, glass fabrics or unwoven fabrics. When heat and pressure are applied to the layers, a chemical reaction (polymerization) transforms the layers into a high-pressure thermosetting industrial laminated plastic. In this way "Carbon Fiber" is a phenolic compound, however it isn't as cheap as delrin.

[DEE97GTP]

I would advise against phenolic for this type of application. Unless it is coated, it tends to absorb coolant really well, swell and warp.

DEE

[zlexiss]

Hate to argue with you Dom, but you're talking about composites in general, not just phenolics.

Phenolic refers to a specific class of polymers based on the phenol molecule - basically, the base monomer is a benzene ring. Instead of forming long chains, phenolic resins polymerize in three dimensions, the part essentially ends up a single molecule. Phenolics generally have high temperature and solvent/chemical resistance (compared to epoxies, polyesters, and vinyls), but can be brittle.

Overall, I'd say it would do pretty well as a spacer compared to Delrin, any decent machinist can cut it just as easily, whether its a pure plastic or a composite laminate.

-Jeff

[SLOWBRAEATER]

where would we get the bolts for the upper intake since they would have to be 1/2" longer? arent they certain type of bolt? We would need two upper intake gaskets for the upper intake spacer wouldnt we? it seems like it would be a major pita to make one of these for our cars because there isnt a whole lot of room from the top of the intake to the plastick piece that runs below the windshield, it probably would be very hard removing the upper intake with a 1/2" spacer on :( and it probably would be difficult making a spacer because there is a little post thing in the right front corner of the intake. When the intake gasket goes on it kinda slips over the small post and holds the gasket in place, i mean im sure its doable with the right tools but would probably be a huge pain. come on dee if we trust anyone to make this right its you :D i would pay for one [img]smile.gif[/img]

[DEE97GTP]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by zlexiss:

Overall, I'd say it would do pretty well as a spacer compared to Delrin, any decent machinist can cut it just as easily, whether its a pure plastic or a composite laminate.

-Jeff<hr></blockquote>

Jeff, thanks for the detailed explanation! I just wanted to reiterate one thing. A guy in the GP community started making these out of phenolic a couple of years ago. They worked great for a while, but they started to leak. It was due to the fact that the phenolic was absorbing coolant and warping. I don't know if you could coat it and make it reliable for this application.

DEE

[merlinsrealm]

My engine is stock but if the TB spacer in any way would help my car...if you decide to make them by pre order I would be on that list :D

[silvachris1]

Hey, I posted this in the other Throttle Body discussion http://www.camarov6.com/cgi-bin/ulti...f=16&t=001613. There is a pretty good sized machine shop near by me. Check out www.rcbi.org to find out about them. They do some work with the University I go to as well. I may be able to set up something with them. The tooling is available to public use, it just has to be modeled in Solidworks or Autocadd or something like that. Now, I can model it in 3D and have them cut the spacers out to spec. I would have to see how much they will charge a student to use the machines. I think the typical rate is something like $30.00 per hour. It depends on the machine though. They could even laser cut copper to make gaskets in the right shape. I would have to see how cost effective this would be. They can make just about anything there. Somebody tell me how much the spacers should cost, and I'll see how many they can make in an hour to see if this would be worth it or not. Also, what type of material would be best? Most cost effective? Somebody let me know something, and I'll start asking around. It will be around August before I would be able to have them start the machining processes (assuming it is cost effective). Just let me know what all I would need to find out from them. Like hourly cost for machine use, what materials they can work with, how much materials cost? What else do I need tp find out. That is, if you guys want me to look into this. Somebody tell me what to do.

[Dominic]

zlexiss - I posted a quote from a website.

I know what phenol is, as a biology major I've had to undergo several semesters of organic chemistry, and I know what a phenolic reaction is as well. I just thought I'd try to find a basic thing on it to explain to the board. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Thanks though!