Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

[99BlackW68]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

wow...this is all so exciting. makes me proud to be an American following GM. if the new Camaro had over 400 hp...simply awesome. im still waiting for them to resurrect the Firebird....there aren't even any plans on it...and they probably wont ever have another Trans Am, because of copyright crap :cry:

[Camaro Dom]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

wow...this is all so exciting. makes me proud to be an American following GM. if the new Camaro had over 400 hp...simply awesome. im still waiting for them to resurrect the Firebird....there aren't even any plans on it...and they probably wont ever have another Trans Am, because of copyright crap :cry:

it has nothing to do with copyrights... GM had to decide if they'd make more money if they designed another car w/ different sheetmetal and interior. All that engineering costs alot of money, and releasing a trans am directly competes with the Camaro, reducing their margins. It all comes down to cash money, unfortunately.

[DocsZ06]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

it has nothing to do with copyrights... GM had to decide if they'd make more money if they designed another car w/ different sheetmetal and interior. All that engineering costs alot of money, and releasing a trans am directly competes with the Camaro, reducing their margins. It all comes down to cash money, unfortunately.

with that logic there wouldn't be 3 corvette models

[black98V6]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

I read on the vette board that someone got a new LS3 vette to the dyno and using RWHP to calculate back to the crank they estimated more than the 435 gm is stating right now, it's closer to 450 at the crank. This was one car though so ya never know.

[HokieBird]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

There were new spy shots of the Blue Devil recently that showed it with a carbon fiber hood and roof, revised rear defussers and fender vents. The car is going to be sick. Hopefully they have spent a lot of time sorting out the suspension so it can actually put the power to the ground.

[99BlackW68]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

it has nothing to do with copyrights... GM had to decide if they'd make more money if they designed another car w/ different sheetmetal and interior. All that engineering costs alot of money, and releasing a trans am directly competes with the Camaro, reducing their margins. It all comes down to cash money, unfortunately.

no i meant strictly the Trans Am. they may come out with a Firebird eventually, but GM has to pay royalties to the owners of the Trans Am race (and did through the years of '69 to '02). thats what the Trans Am was named after, that race. so if they do come out with a Firebird in the future, there will be a good chance that there wont be a Trans Am with it, for that reason...makes me sad.

[HokieBird]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

Fresh from AutoBlog:

The Chevy small block V8 has been around in one form or another longer than many current GM engineers have been alive, but continuous updates continue to keep the venerable powerplant relevant. GM is currently developing the world's first overhead valve Direct Injection engine, giving the 6.2L test engine big gains in horsepower and torque while bumping fuel economy from 3% to 6%.The 6.2L currently pumps out up to 403HP without DI in the Escallade, but Dave Sczomak, development engineer-GM Powertrain Advanced Engineering, says the technology will bump power to "well over 450HP."


Perhaps even more exciting is the possibility that the anxiously awaited Camaro may receive a variant of the engine. The mere thought of the ultra-sexy Camaro packing over 450HP without added boost could make us want to have a smoke. While we're hoping the Camaro gets the DI engine, the halo status of the Corvette makes the two-seater a shoo-in for the improved engine. That would give the base 'Vette nearly 500HP, and it boggles the mind to imagine the output of a Z06/SS/Blue Devil.

Editor's Note: There's no reason to believe GM wouldn't drop the DI V8 in both Corvette and Camaro. Back in December, a source we spoke to who was familiar with Camaro powertrain discussions told us that there was a faction pushing for seriously big power in the Camaro. When we asked exactly how big, the individual smiled and held up five fingers. We'll learn how that pans out in due course. Then in January at NAIAS, Ed Peper specifically told us that there were no concerns with having Camaro step on Corvette, power-wise, as the two cars have such different market positioning -- sports car vs. muscle car. Plus, the ZR1 ensures that there will be a Corvette with power that greatly exceeds that of Camaro anyway. No matter how things play out, there's good reason to expect some real excitement.

So a 450hp Camaro sounds like it will happen and a 500hp Camaro may even happen.

[Camaro Dom]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

with that logic there wouldn't be 3 corvette models

they dont directly compete w/ each other. firebirds and camaros are the same darn thing. styling is the only difference. the base, z06 and future blue devil 'vettes are in three different price ranges and are aimed at different crowds. The base is for the middle aged guy who's going thru midlife crisis, the z06 is for the people with more money or who are serious about racing and the blue devil is for those that have money for supercars. Plus, its their flagship car. They'll be willing to take smaller margins b/c the 'vette is kind of like the spokes"car" for GM as a whole. its their best foot forward. The camaro is designed to be a mass production car, with production numbers far higher. Changing the sheet metal on a 'vette for the z06 with, what? 10000 cars a year isnt such a big deal. Paying for sheetmetal between a camaro and firebird with 150k+ cars a year is a whole different animal. They have to pay double (more if you factor in all the engineering to make the second one) for two different cars that fit the same market niche.

i dont like it either. I wish there was a trans am but the only way that's going to happen is if they somehow distinguish the firebird from being the camaro's twin brother.

[Shirl]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

ls3 C6 is 430, They won't release an f-body with more hp than the vette

And this is why my next car will most likely be a Vette... by the time they build the Camaro with a 400 something horse motor, that Vette would have been out a couple years already and probably cost about the same.

[DocsZ06]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

I read on the vette board that someone got a new LS3 vette to the dyno and using RWHP to calculate back to the crank they estimated more than the 435 gm is stating right now, it's closer to 450 at the crank. This was one car though so ya never know.

Because people like to use dynojet dynos which read higher and then calculate crank horespower with them.

Stock C5 Z06's dyno 350-355 on dynojets, which with a 15% driveline loss would put them at about 420 at the crank. My car dynoed 401 rwhp on a load bearing dyno. The stock ones dyno about 342 on this dyno which with a 15% loss would be about 405 hp, putting my car at about 472 crank horspower. I could probably go dyno on a dynojet right now and put down almost 415 at the wheels on one of those. Truth be known if you are worried about numbers, it was such a good day for dynoing when I had my car tuned that it put down 450 rwhp before it was SAE corrected. A dyno that shows about a 15% loss on a manual will be the most accurate. I haven't seen anything but dynojet numbers yet.

They are 436 since I believe the new power standards GM has to use better than a random dynojet dyno number.

[DocsZ06]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

no i meant strictly the Trans Am. they may come out with a Firebird eventually, but GM has to pay royalties to the owners of the Trans Am race (and did through the years of '69 to '02). thats what the Trans Am was named after, that race. so if they do come out with a Firebird in the future, there will be a good chance that there wont be a Trans Am with it, for that reason...makes me sad.

yeah I would see them bringing the GTO name back before Trans AM

[DocsZ06]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

And this is why my next car will most likely be a Vette... by the time they build the Camaro with a 400 something horse motor, that Vette would have been out a couple years already and probably cost about the same.

That's why I gave up on the firebird years ago! I had a 1991 vette after my firebird then the Z06 I have now. We'll have all are cars paid off in the next three years, then I'm going to buy a wrecked 08+ C6 convertible, do a Z06 body conversion and supercharge it. After my C6 I'll probably start going backwards in age. I'd like to try and get a (new to me vette) every 4 years or so. You won't regret it.

[99BlackW68]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

they dont directly compete w/ each other. firebirds and camaros are the same darn thing. styling is the only difference. the base, z06 and future blue devil 'vettes are in three different price ranges and are aimed at different crowds. The base is for the middle aged guy who's going thru midlife crisis, the z06 is for the people with more money or who are serious about racing and the blue devil is for those that have money for supercars. Plus, its their flagship car. They'll be willing to take smaller margins b/c the 'vette is kind of like the spokes"car" for GM as a whole. its their best foot forward. The camaro is designed to be a mass production car, with production numbers far higher. Changing the sheet metal on a 'vette for the z06 with, what? 10000 cars a year isnt such a big deal. Paying for sheetmetal between a camaro and firebird with 150k+ cars a year is a whole different animal. They have to pay double (more if you factor in all the engineering to make the second one) for two different cars that fit the same market niche.

i dont like it either. I wish there was a trans am but the only way that's going to happen is if they somehow distinguish the firebird from being the camaro's twin brother.

I dont believe thats why GM is doing that...because they are doing that now with all their other cars. Look at the Pontiac G5 and the Chevy Cobalt...same car. the Pontiac Torrent, Chevy Equinox, Saturn Vue, and GMC Acadia are all the same platform...just like Firebirds and Camaros. this surely is not the reason.

Making multiple cars on the same platform actually saves money. By doing this you dont have to make different chassis, frames, ect. And yes the Camaro and Firebird are marketed to different people. Some people like Firebirds but not Camaros, and vice versa. Though I love all F-bodies, I would never buy a Camaro.

[black98V6]

Re: Possibility of a 450 HP Engine in the New Camaro

Because people like to use dynojet dynos which read higher and then calculate crank horespower with them.

Stock C5 Z06's dyno 350-355 on dynojets, which with a 15% driveline loss would put them at about 420 at the crank. My car dynoed 401 rwhp on a load bearing dyno. The stock ones dyno about 342 on this dyno which with a 15% loss would be about 405 hp, putting my car at about 472 crank horspower. I could probably go dyno on a dynojet right now and put down almost 415 at the wheels on one of those. Truth be known if you are worried about numbers, it was such a good day for dynoing when I had my car tuned that it put down 450 rwhp before it was SAE corrected. A dyno that shows about a 15% loss on a manual will be the most accurate. I haven't seen anything but dynojet numbers yet.

They are 436 since I believe the new power standards GM has to use better than a random dynojet dyno number.

Truedat truedat.. :cool: