God, the thread

[3.4 [deployed]]

So as not to hijack the America thread (even more)

(continue) To state beliefs on pro/con, & be prepared to back them up.

For myself, I'll keep my opinions to myself and do not need to justify them to anyone, but Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy has a most intriguing view on the subject ;)

So, let the games begin.
(and try not to flame)

[ July 05, 2004, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: 3.4 [deployed] ]

[ReodDai]

Well I'll start by posting the conversation between me and rick then. Rick if you have a problem with this let me know and I'll delete this post.

RichardC3303 (3:15:39 PM): Ok, lemme hear it. :)
ReodDai68 (3:15:45 PM): haha k
RichardC3303 (3:15:47 PM): lol
ReodDai68 (3:16:02 PM): religion was created to control the masses
ReodDai68 (3:16:07 PM): not an opinion it was proven fact
ReodDai68 (3:16:15 PM): it had other points as well tho
RichardC3303 (3:16:25 PM): so you dont believe in any religion?
ReodDai68 (3:16:27 PM): to give people something to believe in instead of worrying about the things around them
ReodDai68 (3:16:35 PM): if any I lean towards buddhism
ReodDai68 (3:16:40 PM): but I dislike the deity side of it
ReodDai68 (3:16:47 PM): more like the meditation and power of yourself
RichardC3303 (3:16:55 PM): i cant disagree with you there. i totally think religion is a "control or panic relief"
ReodDai68 (3:17:09 PM): I don't yell at people that are religious =)
ReodDai68 (3:17:12 PM): don't think any less of them
RichardC3303 (3:17:19 PM): im not saying you are
ReodDai68 (3:17:19 PM): but I do make fun of people who claim to be religious
RichardC3303 (3:17:29 PM): but if you dont believe in a god then explain to me where everything came from
ReodDai68 (3:17:30 PM): like the little god vs God comment =)
ReodDai68 (3:17:39 PM): where does fire come from?
RichardC3303 (3:18:13 PM): fire from heat.. im not following
ReodDai68 (3:18:26 PM): no fire comes from the combustion of chemicals due to a catalyst
RichardC3303 (3:18:36 PM): where did the chemicals come from?
RichardC3303 (3:18:41 PM): was it just there?
ReodDai68 (3:18:43 PM): heat comes from the fire =)
ReodDai68 (3:19:01 PM): no but the bible doesn't mention making chemicals it mentions only the things the people knew about back then
RichardC3303 (3:19:20 PM): ok ok, i see what your saying. but explain to me where anything and everything come from
RichardC3303 (3:19:21 PM): in general
RichardC3303 (3:19:25 PM): something had to happen
ReodDai68 (3:19:39 PM): yup I can't answer that question
RichardC3303 (3:19:58 PM): alright
ReodDai68 (3:20:04 PM): because unlike most of the world when I don't know something I can't just say "well god did it"
RichardC3303 (3:20:13 PM): i understand
RichardC3303 (3:20:15 PM): i see your points
RichardC3303 (3:20:19 PM): heres my view
ReodDai68 (3:20:22 PM): k
RichardC3303 (3:20:52 PM): everything had to come from something.. theres where god comes in
ReodDai68 (3:21:28 PM): god had to come from something with that line of though ;)
ReodDai68 (3:21:38 PM): thought*
RichardC3303 (3:21:54 PM): exactly, but those are questions that'll never be answered
RichardC3303 (3:22:05 PM): so what do you think happens when you die?
ReodDai68 (3:22:22 PM): yup because the idea of common religion is god is infallible thus god couldn't be created by anything higher it would mean god is not the supreme
ReodDai68 (3:22:33 PM): you die =)
RichardC3303 (3:22:38 PM): then..?
ReodDai68 (3:22:47 PM): why does there have to be something after death?
RichardC3303 (3:22:52 PM): why not?
ReodDai68 (3:23:04 PM): the energy that your body contained is consumed by things around it
ReodDai68 (3:23:13 PM): I don't believe in a soul sorry
ReodDai68 (3:23:23 PM): I know what runs the body.. electrical impulses
RichardC3303 (3:23:31 PM): you look at life very scientificly dont you
ReodDai68 (3:23:49 PM): yup my spiritual side is only linked through humanity
ReodDai68 (3:23:55 PM): I don't believe in outside forces
RichardC3303 (3:24:13 PM): i see
ReodDai68 (3:24:25 PM): here is one of my all time favorite things to point out to people that pray =)
ReodDai68 (3:24:58 PM): you ever had someone tell you a story about something that happened about 5 minutes ago and you feel annoyed cuz they knew you had just sat through that experience?
RichardC3303 (3:25:16 PM): yeah
ReodDai68 (3:25:21 PM): now imagine how god feels
ReodDai68 (3:25:32 PM): he see's all, knows all or depending on your believe planned all
ReodDai68 (3:25:50 PM): now every on of his followers atleast once a day prays for him to help them or relates part of their day
ReodDai68 (3:26:16 PM): seems kinda pointless
ReodDai68 (3:26:23 PM): and against the principles of the religion to me
RichardC3303 (3:26:24 PM): thats your view i guess
RichardC3303 (3:26:34 PM): i dont think your necessarily wrong
RichardC3303 (3:26:40 PM): but it all comes down to what you believe
RichardC3303 (3:26:58 PM): theres no absolute way to prove whether either person is right or wrong
ReodDai68 (3:27:03 PM): nope =)
ReodDai68 (3:27:08 PM): my other arguement is this
ReodDai68 (3:27:27 PM): I will stop argueing religion against someone as long as they agree to this one statement
ReodDai68 (3:27:48 PM): Their entire religion and belief is based on faith not fact.
RichardC3303 (3:28:11 PM): yes and no
RichardC3303 (3:28:19 PM): because no one can actually prove that the bible is wrong
RichardC3303 (3:28:30 PM): not a single person was there when it was written
ReodDai68 (3:28:33 PM): and you can't prove any of it is right.. thus it isn't a fact ;)
ReodDai68 (3:28:47 PM): you put your faith in the bible
RichardC3303 (3:28:51 PM): yep
ReodDai68 (3:28:58 PM): thats my only point =)
RichardC3303 (3:29:06 PM): good point
RichardC3303 (3:29:17 PM): but it wont change my views, which im not saying your trying too
ReodDai68 (3:29:19 PM): however some people will argue that untill the day they die.. that their religion is a fact
ReodDai68 (3:29:43 PM): nah I know it won't change anything , don't want it to whatever helps you get through the days and nights is good for you ;)
RichardC3303 (3:31:03 PM): all i can say is i have my faith, trust, and loyalty to god and i believe that there is a supreme being that was our creater
ReodDai68 (3:31:31 PM): you have that right
ReodDai68 (3:31:43 PM): one thing this country was created for..... sorta lol
ReodDai68 (3:31:54 PM): as long as you were a protestant that is
RichardC3303 (3:31:55 PM): yep
RichardC3303 (3:32:28 PM): well, nice talking to you. finally talked to someone about religion without a fight trying to change the other persons life long views on life
ReodDai68 (3:32:31 PM): btw if you haven't guess I'm a psychology major and philosophy minor )

[98v6]

Well, the way I see it, and I realize half you guys will take this the wrong way and spend this whole thread attacking my view, but that's just because you're used to responding to my drunken posts [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] Anyway, I'm sober this time and here we go.

First, a well-known fact: You can't prove the existence (or the nonexistence) of God.

Secondly, there are only two explanations for the existence of this world: God created it, or it happened at random due to the infinite nature of the space and time that make up our universe.

I think this whole debate is relatively pointless, because even if there is a god, he wouldn't be how everybody thinks he is because modern religion has a very empiricistic view of god, which means they think of him as a perfect, maximally powerful and good human being.

Another well-known theory: In an infinite universe, EVERYTHING is happening at the instant it can be imagined. One thing that bothers me about this theory is that it can't really apply to specific people. So, I can imagine myself on the moon. But, it wouldn't be me if it were just an identical being in an alternate universe because I have a personality and a distinctive pattern of thoughts and emotions. Other than that, this theory seems pretty strong to me, because if something is infinite, you can't leave anything out.

This random view is somewhat deterministic, because no matter where you are, assuming that there can be duplicates of sentient beings, or what decision you are making, there is another one of you in an alternate world that is making the opposite decision. So, if your life is played out infinitely no matter what, what difference does it make what option we choose at a given point?

[95fbirdkid]

I belive there is somthing/one out there. I dont belive he/she/it runs our lives and everything we do.

I agree that this is a arguement that will go nowhere fast. This is somthing you either belive in or you dont. You cant prove one way or another, and no matter what either side says, there will be no budging the other side.

[98v6]

Originally posted by 95fbirdkid:
I belive there is somthing/one out there. I dont belive he/she/it runs our lives and everything we do.

I agree that this is a arguement that will go nowhere fast. This is somthing you either belive in or you dont. You cant prove one way or another, and no matter what either side says, there will be no budging the other side.

Something like politics, where you see something Bush has done and get really pissed off, then you get drunk and ***** at all the conservatives on the firebird lounge but never sway anybody no matter how hard you try...

[3.4 [deployed]]

Qoute from the Guide:

Now it is such a bizarrely impossible coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the nonexistence of God. The arguement goes something like this:


"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," say Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't though of that" and promply vanishes in a puff of logic.

--THGTG

[ReodDai]

Ok thats pretty funny.

[daxdie]

Originally posted by 3.4 [deployed]:
Qoute from the Guide:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Now it is such a bizarrely impossible coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the nonexistence of God. The arguement goes something like this:


"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," say Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't though of that" and promply vanishes in a puff of logic.

--THGTG

</font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for hunting that up and posting it for us. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Machiavelli]

Its incredibly ignorant to not believe in a higher being of some sort, which I choose to call God.

[ReodDai]

Lol wow. Yes ignorance is when you don't believe something that is based only on faith. Thats the definition of ignorance all right....

[navyblue2000]

actually, ignorance would be the inability to accept other peoples' points of view based on personal experiences, upbringing, and beliefs.

[ReodDai]

Yup so how does me not believing in god relate to my ignorance?

[98v6]

Originally posted by Machiavelli:
Its incredibly ignorant to not believe in a higher being of some sort, which I choose to call God.

Wow, you really hit the nail on the head here. :rolleyes:

There is no logical evidence that one exists. Therefore, it is ignorant to believe it's ignorant not to believe in one. Agnosticism is the only philosophical viewpoint supported by the world we live in, which is basically that God's existence or nonexistance cannot be proven. It doesn't state a stance on whether HE exists because there is no evidence either way, it pretty much just says you believe what you believe and I'll believe what I want.

But, here's a little puzzle in our language. Supposedly, God created the universe. But, universe is pretty much just a term that refers to everything. So, how could God create everything, when the phrase everything has to include him? It is impossible for something to create itself, and even philosophers don't typically delve into where God came from.

To me, the only logical explanation for the existence of the universe is that it's always been there, which could be true of God too, but it seems more likely for an infinite amount of space and time (and probably matter and energy) to simply spawn things because it is constantly changing than for there to be some all-powerful being which controls everything in reality.

[Johnny Ray]

A old man once told me, "Religion is taught and spirituality is caught."

:cool:

[TealV6]

Originally posted by Johnny Ray:
A old man once told me, "Religion is taught and spirituality is caught."

:cool:

Wisdom is good Johnny... thanks for reminding us of something like that! [img]smile.gif[/img]