Bill Cosby Speaks:

[epic]

http://visionsconnect.com/jello.jpg

That's what I got outta that article...

[j_downey50]

Originally posted by epic:
http://visionsconnect.com/jello.jpg

That's what I got outta that article...

[img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

[BirdOfPrey01]

Not all black people are like this. It's the choice some make. Just like some white people chose to act like poor black folks.

It's just a trend, like hair grease back in the 50's. or big belbottoms. or tie die shirts. disco, its all a trend.

Being a ghetto thug = the ultimate scary cool guy

I can safely blame women for the rise in white ghetto wannabe thugs. All the girls are like.. Oh eminem he is so hot omg! So now we got 1000's wanting to be like eminem or some other rap artist.

Most young women are idiots, they do not know what they want. They are confused individuals that want attention, and love, and the perfect world.

Usually by the time they hit 25 they wake up and realize, having a man that beats them up, and steals their stuff or is in jail often is NOT a good relationship.

These thuggish kids all look tough, but most of them cannot put up a good fight. Not that some can't im sure some could whoop my ***, but, most cannot fight worth a piss. I'll moly wop them good

[Christian]

Originally posted by BirdOfPrey01:
ghetto wannabe thugs. All the girls are like.. Oh eminem he is so hot omg! So now we got 1000's wanting to be like eminem or some other rap artist.

According to Eminem the say "Becky oh my freakin god it's eminem....dude you freaking rock, please won't you please let me cuck your sock" [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

[imported_admin]

Originally posted by Christian:
Music is music....it's not real life man.

That's a point that is often used in the defense of music, movies, or video games that glorify violence, mindless sex, and abuse of dangerous drugs. There is significant evidence saying the opposite. Statistical analysis aside, you're a fool if you believe that movies and music do not influence young people's behavior.

I often hear:

"I listen to that stuff but I've never busted a cap in anyone's ***"

I reply:

"No, but your pants are halfway down your ***, you walk around like you're wearing diapers filled with diarrhea, you use the word "*****" in every sentence and can't even pronounce it right, you have two kids with two different moms and can't find a job because white peeps jus' keepin ya down. Where be yo' baby momma at?"

Originally posted by Mighty Thor:
When I accepted Jesus in my life those things just doesn't appeal to me anymore.

Funny you mention that. I used to be a huge heavy metal fan. Today I just don't have that same anger/hatred toward the world to justify listening to the really heavy stuff. I have a career, a wife-to-be, and a God that loves me. What's there to be angry about? [img]smile.gif[/img]

My situation, of course, would be very different if I was living off welfare in da hood... I would probably listen to metal or rap then. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Christian:
The people in my culture and this contains blacks, hispanics and even some whites- use the word because it shows that "in order to degrade me" you need to come up with something else, because "we" took the sting out of that word. Now if a racist called me a "N" who cares about the word?

WRONG!

I've heard that excuse too but its simply not correct. The word "******" essentially today means two completely different things depending on if a black person said it or if a white person said it.

Black people TRY to diffuse the meaning of the word... but they're failing. If I go into Southeast D.C. and say to a black guy: "get a job you worthless ******!", how many seconds do you think it would take before I had 50 9 mm rounds embedded in my chest?

When a white racist uses the word "******" it still carries a heck of a sting. Rappers using it to try to weaken it have not succeeded.

Originally posted by Christian:
Now if a racist called me a "N" who cares about the word?

If you don't care about the word then why can't you spell it out? Why bother saying "N" when you could say "******"? See? Despite the efforts of rappers, that word has not lost any power.

Originally posted by BirdOfPrey01:
Not all black people are like this. It's the choice some make.

<soapbox>

I don't remember who said this, but it was a famous black leader a few years ago.

"There is a difference between a black man and a ******."

The black man goes to school, graduates, gets a job, finds a wife, has children, pays his bills on time, is active in his children's education, goes to church, VOTES, etc.

The ****** drops out of school, smokes crack, can't find a job, owns more guns than the U.S. Army 50th Light Infantry battalion, has three kids with different mothers, doesn't pay child support for any of them, has a criminal record so long it runs out the DMV printer's ink cartridge, listens to rap, wears his pants down on his ***, can't speak proper English to save his life, and thinks its the white man's fault.

It is a choice every person has to make: which path do you choose? White people have other choices, these are the two common ones for black people. I have nothing but respect for the former; I work with many and would consider them my friends. But I have nothing but contempt for the latter. Its their own damn fault. If my coworkers could come out of the ghetto and get good jobs at respectable companies, raise families, and live in the suburbs, why can't they? [img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img]

</soapbox>

[98v6]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BirdOfPrey01:
Not all black people are like this. It's the choice some make.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<soapbox>

I don't remember who said this, but it was a famous black leader a few years ago.

"There is a difference between a black man and a ******."

The black man goes to school, graduates, gets a job, finds a wife, has children, pays his bills on time, is active in his children's education, goes to church, VOTES, etc.

The ****** drops out of school, smokes crack, can't find a job, owns more guns than the U.S. Army 50th Light Infantry battalion, has three kids with different mothers, doesn't pay child support for any of them, has a criminal record so long it runs out the DMV printer's ink cartridge, listens to rap, wears his pants down on his ***, can't speak proper English to save his life, and thinks its the white man's fault.

It is a choice every person has to make: which path do you choose? White people have other choices, these are the two common ones for black people. I have nothing but respect for the former; I work with many and would consider them my friends. But I have nothing but contempt for the latter. Its their own damn fault. If my coworkers could come out of the ghetto and get good jobs at respectable companies, raise families, and live in the suburbs, why can't they?

</soapbox>

I believe it was Chris Rock.

[Christian]

Originally posted by Stefan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Christian:
Music is music....it's not real life man.

That's a point that is often used in the defense of music, movies, or video games that glorify violence, mindless sex, and abuse of dangerous drugs. There is significant evidence saying the opposite. Statistical analysis aside, you're a fool if you believe that movies and music do not influence young people's behavior.

I often hear:

"I listen to that stuff but I've never busted a cap in anyone's ***"

I reply:

"No, but your pants are halfway down your ***, you walk around like you're wearing diapers filled with diarrhea, you use the word "*****" in every sentence and can't even pronounce it right, you have two kids with two different moms and can't find a job because white peeps jus' keepin ya down. Where be yo' baby momma at?"

Originally posted by Mighty Thor:
When I accepted Jesus in my life those things just doesn't appeal to me anymore.

Funny you mention that. I used to be a huge heavy metal fan. Today I just don't have that same anger/hatred toward the world to justify listening to the really heavy stuff. I have a career, a wife-to-be, and a God that loves me. What's there to be angry about? [img]smile.gif[/img]

My situation, of course, would be very different if I was living off welfare in da hood... I would probably listen to metal or rap then. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Christian:
The people in my culture and this contains blacks, hispanics and even some whites- use the word because it shows that "in order to degrade me" you need to come up with something else, because "we" took the sting out of that word. Now if a racist called me a "N" who cares about the word?

WRONG!

I've heard that excuse too but its simply not correct. The word "******" essentially today means two completely different things depending on if a black person said it or if a white person said it.

Black people TRY to diffuse the meaning of the word... but they're failing. If I go into Southeast D.C. and say to a black guy: "get a job you worthless ******!", how many seconds do you think it would take before I had 50 9 mm rounds embedded in my chest?

When a white racist uses the word "******" it still carries a heck of a sting. Rappers using it to try to weaken it have not succeeded.</font>[/QUOTE]"Rappers" Stef, that's a general term and as long as we use general terms we are going to keep going in circles.

In my post I spoke about INTENT, not so much as content. I didn't spell the word out because I wanted to leave the interpetation to the reader, I don't spell nor pronounce the word as "******"-from my mouth it is "*****". Sure to some it may not carry a difference but trust me there is.

Take your same scenario and play it out like this Stefan: walk by a group of educated, intelligent blacks and say the word while repeating a song with your headphones on and they will probably laugh at the occurence. No one that "I" know gets upset about that word anymore, from "MY" 24 years of living "I've" seen it change drastically.

I told you that I have a particular white friend (for LIFE) and he and I joke all the time with what some people call racist jokes and or comments. We'd never use those around people who don't understand our relationship for THEIR sake, not ours. Another reason as not to spell it, I have a skill that most don't have. My vocabulary at work is different from that of my normal day to day vocabulary. My speech to those I don't share a personal relationship with is not the same for my family and friends.

Both my parents HATE the word to a tee, and out of respect for them I use it sparingly, but if it comes out they understand me enough to put it into context. If I meet another black person, I don't assume that his perception about the word is like mine, so I refrain to assure myself not to offend ANYONE else.

And you and I both know that rappers don't use the word to "try" to take the sting out of the word, that's neither what I said nor what I meant. Truth is they couldn't care less about what racist people think about it when they say it, it has become a part of their culture and by choice, not by force. I just find it hard to believe that a racist guy still thinks he can call a dude a "******" and think he has done something-he may get smacked but it's so far from the word he used Stefan, he could use "coon", "jigg" or whatever the hell and still be SOL.

It's the feeling, the purpose behind what you are "trying" to say, not the word you use to do it with, not anymore. Take this: if I run into your house while you and your fianc'e are sleeping armed with a toilet pulnger, then say "I'm going to kill you both"....you'd shoot me before I could finsh my scentence, Right? Okay then, if I did the same thing with a fuggin' rocket launcher......I say that to make this point:IF MY INTENTIONS ARE TO HARM YOU, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT I ARM MYSELF WITH-intent vs content my friend.

I myself have an adorable little boy, beautiful wife-to-be, good education, loving family, hell of a career and you are 100 percent correct about you not having time to "play" like before. My social or economic status does not change my music preference, not saying something is wrong if "your" preference changes, I can only speak for me. I like some heavy metal and some rap-not all of either. I don't have to be on welfare to justify anything, nor to credit anyone.

When I was young I didn't have much more than parents who loved me to death, not much money but I was told that NOTHING is an excuse for failure, so scratch that. Black, White, Asian, Indian, Latino whatever GOD blessed you to be, those values should be priority in your lives and the lives of the people you are responsible for; not the movies they watch or the music they listen to. I admire the diversity of this board, not just our respective nationalities but the ability to debate and discuss diverse topics as well. [img]graemlins/rock.gif[/img]

Love rappin with you Stef...sorry it's a friggin novel [img]graemlins/slap.gif[/img]
-Scott

[ July 04, 2004, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Christian ]

[BirdOfPrey01]

its funny, i dont go around calling my friends crackas

"what up cracka!"

I believe the word has several meanings.

I believe it started out by white folks back in the days of slavery as a degrade and talk down upon colored people.

Black people then used it on eachother to mock white people.

It can be used between two black people degrade someone.

Black guys says "Hey ***** go get me a glass of water" - Degrading

Black man says "Hey ***** whats up?" - Mocking white people, but its so old, no one remembers why they are really saying it. Ask a black person once, they wont know. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Although the word itself is degrading no matter what. It's used in sentences by black males to greet eachother sometimes. (originally used to mock white people)

Black folks have made it into their word only. White people are not allowed to say it.

The last use of the word is "******" which is spoken with a white dialect. Which makes it the most obscene and offensive way to say it. Just because it is in a white dialect. NIG-GER versus Nig-ga which is black dialect.

BTW im a white person [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Justin Kirkham]

I'll agree with Stefan on this one and only say one other thing. If I was to write a story about me raping a 6 year old girl, would you read it and just say "It's a story, and nothing more,"? I doubt it, and for the sake of the future, I hope that such a thing is never accepted in videogames, movies, music, or poetry.

-Justin

[imported_admin]

Originally posted by Justin Kirkham:
If I was to write a story about me raping a 6 year old girl, would you read it and just say "It's a story, and nothing more,"? I doubt it, and for the sake of the future, I hope that such a thing is never accepted in videogames, movies, music, or poetry.

That already happens, almost.

Music, video games (Grand Theft Auto), and movies glorify killing police. Principle is the same, yet people say "its just a movie".

Does art imitate life or does life imitate art?

[imported_admin]

Originally posted by Christian:
I myself have an adorable little boy, beautiful wife-to-be, good education, loving family, hell of a career and you are 100 percent correct about you not having time to "play" like before. My social or economic status does not change my music preference

But you also know that there are negative stereotypes associated with that music and/or style. On Friday nights do you wear your pants down on your butt? Do you talk like you're from the ghetto? If you do, WHY?

I have one coworker in his late 20's who does, he's an Accounts Payable guy and makes darn good money. I don't understand why he bothers. He tries to be all "cool" in his off hours by talking like a gangsta and listening to rap, driving a Mercedes with chrome rims... if I were a black gangster who truly was from the ghetto I would describe him as a wannabe.

If you're a respectable citizen, act like it. This applies largely to white kids from the suburbs, too--they think they're so tough by acting like they're from da hood.

If you're a criminal and therefore not a respectable citizen, don't expect to go anywhere in life until you learn to act the part.

Originally posted by Christian:
When I was young I didn't have much more than parents who loved me to death, not much money but I was told that NOTHING is an excuse for failure, so scratch that. Black, White, Asian, Indian, Latino whatever GOD blessed you to be, those values should be priority in your lives and the lives of the people you are responsible for; not the movies they watch or the music they listen to.

You grew up with two parents. Right there you have one up on the very people we're discussing.

I agree, I don't give a damn if you're black, white, yellow, green, blue, whatever... if you walk and talk like trash I will treat you like trash. Simple, eh?

And that's what Bill Cosby was saying. Young punk black males won't get jobs if they walk and talk like trash. They won't go anywhere if they don't speak proper English. That's not "da white man holding me down, yo", that's just the way a society functions. Rap music, by its nature, encourages people to walk and talk like ghetto trash. Maybe you can listen to it and still hold a good job, but many people can't. They look up to the rappers and want to be just like them--walk like them, talk like them. Rappers can act like that and still be successful businessmen, but the kids they're influencing can't. And that's why rappers are bad--they are setting a bad example for the highly-impressionable young black men of this country.

You think people don't act like their idols?

[Christian]

I grew up with two parents, but not in the same household (just to clarify). I wouldn't say I have one up on them because I have to deal with other issues. I hear people make the excuses of "I had to see my parents get a divorce....it was sooooooo damaging to my poor little life." I say that to make this subtle statement: We ALL have some type of barrier that attempts to imped on our aim for success, dosen't matter what it is because as long as you are breathing , they will be there.

As for the pants thing Stef, you are right that sterotypes go along with them, can't and won't argue that. Have you ever seen kids wearing the "goth" look? Or what about the "hurley" look, guys that look like they are X-gamers? You have seen those right? People have their personalities and we run into problems when we associate them with negative things. While you may choose to look at the action as a problem ,I choose to think that the stereotype is the core of the issue.

I don't dress like that becase I choose not to, my image is my bond with people that I don't know. I was taught to be formal and professional first, and that's universal. And rappers aren't the problem; the fact that there are so many highly-impressionable young blacks is the problem. The same problem was here when young kids wanted to dress like Elvis, or Kiss and even Marylin Manson.....same exact thing. In my opinion too much emphasis is placed on images of others, rather than what the root is. These things are fads, the same way blue suede shoes and face painting were yesterday, what won't go away is the fact that too many children aren't taught what is fact and what is bone fiction

[ July 07, 2004, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Christian ]