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Only if its pre-negotiated in your Union Contract, but the Unnion it self are going to take one leg for administration fees, so you may only get a 3 legged pony.
But have you worked on any of these outside of an aircraft?
Actually I have,
are your arms getting tired from your **** swinging yet? You don't think that alot of the same issues, complex systems, unique loads, and you are talking about rules of municipalities. You need to good Federal Air Regulations.
Do you make as much as your union counterparts?
Couple grand less but they are pigeon holed and do not get to learn different aspects of the job. But also cost of living is a factor, there is a difference but like $2k a year.
The funny part, everyone that works with our counterparts are amazed how much work we get done. Our counterparts are lazy as ****.
Ive been a foreman on several jobs. We keep costs in mind, but the difference between union and non-union is that when we look at cutting costs, the last place we look is labor. Its usually the first in a non-union atmosphere.
My company does the opposite it throws people at the problems. They look for cost savings in other ways.
But Eric, you NEVER did answer my questions....
So when your bosses come down and require you to take a 30% paycut, while they drive home in a Maserati or Ferrari, are you going to tell yourself its to keep the company competitive? Are you going to sit back and get **** on like that if the situation arises? Lemme tell you something, if your company starts taking losses due to competition, your managers aren't going to come out of their office and ask you what they should do. They're just going to start cutting where they can cut, and they start with labor. If the upper echelon of management and stockholders gave a **** about you and your coworkers opinions to make their company more efficient, you'd be running the company, wouldn't you?
I have only worked non-Union jobs for 12 years, I have never been faced with that problem. I always consistantly recieved raises. The only people I saw affected were slow non-productive.
Let us just agree to disagree...
to me I am a SCAB, bastard that doesn't know a thing...
To me you are a worthless Union slob. That just focuses on more bull**** and red tape usually already seen in jobs, and just add to it. They are lazy, and don't work hard because their job is protected.
It won't change you are in one of the most corrupt political areas of our country, and there is so much big money in unions, they buy politicians. Proof of this is when our current administration got bought out, with NLRB's recent actions.
To me you are a worthless Union slob. That just focuses on more bull**** and red tape usually already seen in jobs, and just add to it. They are lazy, and don't work hard because their job is protected.
What union tradesmen job is protected? Mine certainly isn't. We can all be fired or laid off for whatever reason. We have VERY FEW instances where we could save our job, and those instances would be if there was discrimination or harassment on the part of the contractor.
Trade unions don't follow the same rules that you see with manufacturing/warehousing unions. We can be fired. Ive seen it happen. Theres no steward to go crying to. We're always union, but we may not always be with the same company. So this myth thats been perpetuated by the mass that "union members can't be fired" is just that, a myth. Its perpetuated by people like you because you think you've seen one union operate, you've seen them all. You're wrong, because you haven't seen them all.
This myth of union members being lazy is also just that, a myth. There is a huge pool of individuals that aren't working in the trades, anyone being lazy can be easily replaced, in a matter of hours. You have a seriously skewed point of view about all unions in general, because everything you said you see, I haven't seen in this union or the other two Ive worked in. And for every lazy union worker you can find, I can just as easily find a non-union worker thats just as lazy.
If we were all as lazy as you say we are, we would have died out in the 80's during the Reagan Administration. And that just didn't happen.
And there you go calling names again for some reason...... I never said I hate unions or union workers, I simply mentioned a few situations I personally had to deal with and the fact that everyone has a right to work whether or not they are union. That just because I was not union does not mean I did not take pride in my work and do a top notch job. Just because I was not union does not mean I did not know what the hell I was doing. I won't even go into all the crap I had to fix after union glazers, so lets not even go there. I never said I walked on and took somebody elses job over, although there were a few where union contracts were terminated and we took over because they could not get their sh** done on time or correctly. How many times on different sites we were called in to maintenance their work..... The plain and simple difference here is I do not care who they hire as long as they are American citizens legally working, where you seem to want to narrow it down even further and place everyone else behind the union guys.
The whole reason why you made a decent amount of money in the first place is directly related to what the union pays their guys. By the union setting the market value of the labor involved, you're employer has to atleast come close to matching it, or his workforce would simply leave. But with no union in place, theres no set price for the person doing the labor. Eventually someone comes along that'll do it cheaper, and another that will do it even cheaper than that, until you have glaziers, carpenters, electricians, ironworkers all working for $12 an hour with no benefits. This has already happened with single home residential construction. Its also a big reason why I won't buy a house thats newer than 25 years old.
I see way too many misinterpretations on how a union works, and its all from 3rd party individuals on the outside looking in.
It won't change you are in one of the most corrupt political areas of our country, and there is so much big money in unions, they buy politicians. Proof of this is when our current administration got bought out, with NLRB's recent actions.
We haven't spent nearly as much money on the current political campaign as our corporate counterparts.
Now that is not a very good definition of reasonable at all in any logical context of the word
The contractor signed the contract. And I have yet to see any aspect of a job that couldn't be done by union labor. I watched a jail cell padded with foam rubber being built by two union carpenters out of Miami. Their shop had 20 guys, and this is all they did, nationwide. They left Chicago to go to Nome, Alaska for build one there.
1995 Pontiac Firebird
2008 Chevrolet Silverado LT Crew Cab 4x4
$134 million dollars over budget, illegal immigrant labor, and 1-2 years behind schedule. Not to mention exposed interior structure. Veteran Administration, aka OUR TAX DOLLARS at work. Untrained and uneducated tradesmen trying to build a govt facility. Is this the alternative to trained union labor?
1995 Pontiac Firebird
2008 Chevrolet Silverado LT Crew Cab 4x4
$134 million dollars over budget, illegal immigrant labor, and 1-2 years behind schedule. Not to mention exposed interior structure. Veteran Administration, aka OUR TAX DOLLARS at work. Untrained and uneducated tradesmen trying to build a govt facility. Is this the alternative to trained union labor?
So you showed us our government wasting tax dollars on a project over budget and behind schedule, happens all the time.
there are ****ty contractors all over the place. Are you telling me a Union has never gone over budget and past schedule?
Either way here is a non-union labor force, they built this, one of the largest free standing structures in north america on a swamp.
They finished 6 months ahead of schedule. Its run by renewable energy only, fully climate controled. All while a union bought presidency tried to get it shut down. Also 3.7 Million work hours without a work loss injury.
It's a giant pole barn. Seriously. Architecturally simplistic. The only difficult part of that site is building on a swamp.
The latest skyscraper built in Chicago, Trump Tower, was completed behind schedule due to issues with the sea wall of the Chicago River, issues with high winds in December of 2008, and caisson issues that were overlooked by structural engineers. They simply didnt realize that Chicago itself sits on partial swampland. But it was finished with $20+ million still left in the construction budget. All by a union general contractor, with union subcontractors.
Almost every building in Chicagos skyline was union built. They are still union managed.....
.......and you show me pics of a pole barn....LMFAO
1995 Pontiac Firebird
2008 Chevrolet Silverado LT Crew Cab 4x4
It's a giant pole barn. Seriously. Architecturally simplistic. The only difficult part of that site is building on a swamp.
The latest skyscraper built in Chicago, Trump Tower, was completed behind schedule due to issues with the sea wall of the Chicago River, issues with high winds in December of 2008, and caisson issues that were overlooked by structural engineers. They simply didnt realize that Chicago itself sits on partial swampland. But it was finished with $20+ million still left in the construction budget. All by a union general contractor, with union subcontractors.
Almost every building in Chicagos skyline was union built. They are still union managed.....
.......and you show me pics of a pole barn....LMFAO
So you are comparing skyscrapers that are still not as impressive as stuff built in the 30s.
To a fully renewable resource, climate controled building that happens to be one of the largest open spaced free standing structures in North America(there are no pillars in the middle), on a site that builds heavy composite structures, and in fact houses one of the worlds largest autoclaves.
ok :)
If Union labor is so good, and everything else is substandard.
Why does the union work so have to work so hard to keep anyone else working with them. Why are companies crippled by them.
Why isn't it just the way its done? If it is such quality work at a fair price?
Either way, Chicago area union crap will work itself out eventually like it has been for the last 30 years.
Chicago is not a new city. As I said, almost all of the buildings down there were union built. Good examples are the Tribune Tower, Carbon and Carbide, and Wrigley buildings, all of which were built before 1930. A lot of the local trade unions are either near or at 100 years old. And a lot of the larger contractors are near the same age as well.
Now when you mean that unions cripple companies, are you talking about companies like UPS? Turner Construction? These are companies worth billions that have union members. Hell, how about my company, which was an AV startup 30 some years ago, who does local work for large international corporations, now worth $22 million? We only employ 70 some people, 50 are union electricians and techs. Are we crippling the company? How on earth did a one man operation turn into a $22 million dollar company with the union crippling it, making it non-competitive?
It's because it's simply not true. It's a myth, it's always been a myth. Considering my own union company has grown 20% in two years I've been here, during THIS recession, goes to show you that a "crippling" effect isnt true. I'm going to clear in the neighborhood of high 80s-low 90s, and my owner is on pace to make himself 10 times that this year, you call that crippling? Fact is, he wouldn't be making this money if it was a non-union shop, and remember, we only employ just a little over 70 people. I don't call that crippled....
1995 Pontiac Firebird
2008 Chevrolet Silverado LT Crew Cab 4x4
This is a stupid argument. It went from 3.8lcoty saying he got a new job (good job btw), to a few people pissing and moaning about how unions are good/bad. Nobody is gonna sway the others opinion on the matter so why argue about it? Dosnt make any sense to me. Yes I work for a union, local 77 IBEW, but I saw where this was going from the start so I didn't say anything about it, because it wouldn't make any difference in the matter. You guys should quit trying to push your beliefs on eachother.
This is a stupid argument. It went from 3.8lcoty saying he got a new job (good job btw), to a few people pissing and moaning about how unions are good/bad. Nobody is gonna sway the others opinion on the matter so why argue about it? Dosnt make any sense to me. Yes I work for a union, local 77 IBEW, but I saw where this was going from the start so I didn't say anything about it, because it wouldn't make any difference in the matter. You guys should quit trying to push your beliefs on eachother.
I try to stand by my convictions. If attitudes like Erics are allowed to perpetuate, it turns into a huge problem. He sees the actions of a few people and thinks those are the actions of a whole. It's wrong. He can believe and do whatever he wants, doesn't effect me, it only affects me when it's allowed to spread like a disease to the whole consensus. Everyone in a union is walking on eggshells because of a growing problem like this. People like him never consider the fact that they're underpaid, with little to no bennies. It's not my fault that people like him have accepted his raw deal, but his attitude will spread to people thinking that we should also accept concessions. I say no. Is the argument stupid? I don't think so. I find the issue to be important, and worth defending. If you don't feel the same, then step aside. I know I'm not going to just sit back and take it when someone is trying to force me to become an expendable liability to a rich mans bottom line.
And Eric, don't sit there and agree with the argument being stupid if for 55 posts in a thread you were back and forth with it. If it was that stupid, you would have stopped after 2 or 3 posts....cmon. Atleast be honest to yourself and your own convictions.:rolleyes:
1995 Pontiac Firebird
2008 Chevrolet Silverado LT Crew Cab 4x4
Yes, everyone that has read this thread can see that. But where is it going? What are you trying to prove? This thread is way off topic, 3.8lcoty was trying to get some recognition for getting his first job out of high school, and automaticly you start bashing him. You don't aprove of this or that, what ever happened to the union brotherhood? Like it or not you should be the first person giving him props, and encouraging him to be the best he can be at his new career.
1997 Chevrolet Camaro
L26, Pacesetter headers, SLP cai, Centerforce DF clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, UMI short stick, 1le driveline, J&M 35mm front swaybar, UMI lca's/phb/sfc's, KYB AGX shocks, Hotchkis stb.
This is a stupid argument. It went from 3.8lcoty saying he got a new job (good job btw), to a few people pissing and moaning about how unions are good/bad. Nobody is gonna sway the others opinion on the matter so why argue about it? Dosnt make any sense to me. Yes I work for a union, local 77 IBEW, but I saw where this was going from the start so I didn't say anything about it, because it wouldn't make any difference in the matter. You guys should quit trying to push your beliefs on eachother.
haha thanks man,i stopped reading after the 3rd page because its just useless fighting past that
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