Beat a GT

[Camaro Dom]

Originally posted by 1NotSoBadAssBird:
On your last comment, I could care less if a cobra spanked me, I wouldnt ever drive a mustang Id rather have an eclipse with a 4 foot tall spoiler.

[img]graemlins/omg.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/omg.gif[/img] dude, i hate mustangs as much as the next guy, but its a love to hate relationship. i would seriously kill myself for just thinking about buying one of those little fart-mobile ricer craps on wheels. hey, i'll give the mustang this: at least its american, and a pretty damn nice ride regardless of all the bickering. lemme put it this way: if someone were to offer me even a v-6 mustang, i would keep the thing! unlike an eclipse which would never share the same driveway as my baby 'maro.

[1NotSoBadAssBird]

new mustang + dressed up = hot

anything older is just ghey I still wouldnt drive a mustang just caue its ford and I hate ford.

[RicE-ter]

Originally posted by kala:
[img]graemlins/popcorn.gif[/img]

[vanbibber]

hate ford all you want, but i dont remember the mustang production lines being shut down, unlike the fbody. so ford was doing something right.(unfortunately for us)

[Need4Camaro]

I say in the overall MAJORITY, PERFORMANCE WISE GM pretty much dominated Ford. The Mustang GT couldn't touch the LT1 or LS1 and was basically fairgame for V6's until the later years when it finally became a consideration against LT1's however laughed at against LS1's. The Cobra's (besides's 03 / 04) were pretty much the same. They of course ran better times but were at the very most, were only able to hang with LS1's stock for stock. Now when 03 / 04 came around, it was a different ballgame... Mach 1's made their appearence and Cobra's just took a considerable leap in power. Mach 1's remind me much of 02 Cobra's as far as performance goes. Still can only hang with LS1's but the LS1 9 times out of 10, wins. The 03/04 Cobra now, these things scare me because for almost nothing you have an 800RWHP car. Mod for Mod, I'm sorry but the Cobra hands the LS1's to it in every catagory. Slap on a Pulley, and Tune...I cannot exaggerate how well these cars respond to JUST those two mod's. Invest the same amount in money for the LS1 and it'll just be a Joke for the Cobra. Now an LS6 (and 01 / 02 with an LS6 Intake), Throw on a Cam, full boltons and you MIGHT stand a decent chance against a STOCK one, but I'm sorry to say, without a poweradder, there's not much hope an LS1 can take a 03 / 04 Cobra. Now the 2005 GT's... Again, Fast cars... but they're no LS1... It's pretty much again like the 02 Cobra / 03 Mach 1... Puts up a fight but fails... However all 3 of these cars will put a hurting on any stock LT1.

I drive an LS1 and have driven / rode several Mustangs... Most were slower, but the ones that were faster simply made it look "No Contest"

[CANTONRACER]

I don't know how old you are so maybe you missed the slaughtering the 5.0's gave f-bodys for a long time. It was pretty bad. There was a time when 16 & 17 second timeslips were common for them. At least we had GN's to help out.

When the 98 f-bodies starting rolling out back in 97, their performance at the track at first was nothing spectacular. When I first saw LS1's at the track, they ran poor for what hype came with them. It was only after a few years that I started to see some pretty quick ones stock. I remember when the first 12 second LS1 was reported(I think it was in a Ford mag)...every LS1 owner that did not know better all of a sudden had a 12 second car...did not matter the timeslip said 13.7.

What I am getting it is don't be so quick to sell the 05 GT's short...they are making 270-280 rwhp/300-310 rwtq stock, good gearing(3.55), great rearend, nice suspension(very similar to f-body's in some ways)...

[cmartin99]

Yes, but that was a small portion of all years both the cars were produced, and i mentioned that. And the Shelby/ZL1 argument.. I know the shelby is going in to production and the ZL1 didn't, basically i was saying, Compare apples to apples. They Shelby is far from a mid-level sports car. Oh, and my foot tastes wonderful, How about yours?

[KBeezy]

Small portion? 1979-1993.. Thats 14 years of dominating... 1993 LT1s included, in 1993 speed density controlled LT1 cars didn't perform well enough.

The 2003 Mach 1 is more than just a restyled previous year cobra. The power curve has been changed, rearend swapped for a live axle instead of independant rear, different gears, different transmission. 03 Mach 1 & LS1 cars are pretty much the most fair competition there is, it comes down to mod vs mod and option vs option. An option free LS1 vs fully loaded Mach 1, or vice-versa, will have a severe effect on the outcome of the race.

Cobras did compete and beat LT1s for a couple years there (1996-2002) but they had a big problem with getting traction using that independant rear suspension and the extra weight that rearend added. Their cornering ability was better than 4th gen F-Bodies but that didn't mean a damn thing in a straight line.


The Shelby Convertible is fully loaded going to cost $50,000. Name a $50,000 convertible that will run 12.7s out of the box.... I can - the new SVT Mustang Shelby drop top....

[Darkshadow188]

Originally posted by KBeezy:

Theres a reason why the Camaro & Firebird were put on the chopping block. Chevy built a true low to the ground modern muscle/sports car but Ford kept theirs more driveable. By doing so they did lose a little in the performance end of the deal but they made up for it in sales, then SVT came along and ran with GM. Then in 2003 showed dominanace with the new Cobra. Yes, ford threw a blower on it, but they were ~70ci smaller in displacement so it all evens out.

I don't see your logic in this statement at all. A blower and 70ci less. Ok. How about 4-Valve Heads, more efficient combustion chamber, cam, rotating assembly, or maybe the simple idea of a ROOTS blower. The 03'SVT Cobra was/is a great car, except the IRS(should have made it with solid axle). All of those things I previously listed make up for may more than 70ci of displacement. Personally I like GM better, but respect both sides. I would rather buy something American made than support another nation. As far as why the Camaro/Firebird was placed on the "cutting block"... it was too hard for GM to compete with Fords cheaper prices. F body cars had a higher price because of the chasis configuration and design, it was just too expensive. This issue has been solved, but it's purely a rumor.

[Darkshadow188]

Originally posted by KBeezy:
Small portion? 1979-1993.. Thats 14 years of dominating... 1993 LT1s included, in 1993 speed density controlled LT1 cars didn't perform well enough.

The 2003 Mach 1 is more than just a restyled previous year cobra. The power curve has been changed, rearend swapped for a live axle instead of independant rear, different gears, different transmission. 03 Mach 1 & LS1 cars are pretty much the most fair competition there is, it comes down to mod vs mod and option vs option. An option free LS1 vs fully loaded Mach 1, or vice-versa, will have a severe effect on the outcome of the race.

Cobras did compete and beat LT1s for a couple years there (1996-2002) but they had a big problem with getting traction using that independant rear suspension and the extra weight that rearend added. Their cornering ability was better than 4th gen F-Bodies but that didn't mean a damn thing in a straight line.


The Shelby Convertible is fully loaded going to cost $50,000. Name a $50,000 convertible that will run 12.7s out of the box.... I can - the new SVT Mustang Shelby drop top....

Are we forgetting the new vette? I would say Ford GT but it's no where near $50,000. Aren't they using the Cobra R heads on the new Shelby. I would immagine that a built car with 330cfm heads would be able to make some real power. Lets just hope they don't use plastic IMRC's again, or twin 56mm throttle bodies.
The ultimate engine lineup:
426 Hemi, Boss 429, and C5R engine. IMO

[cmartin99]

14<21... so, 21/35 is equal to two thirds, and according to the constitution thats just enough to override your veto.

[KBeezy]

Darkshadow, engine design doesn't matter to them, them being people saying "WELL THE COBRA HAS A BLOWEREWR!*#(!@^#!!!!". Yes, it is a DOHC motor, whats your point? The GT has a SOHC motor as well... I don't understand where you dont understand, I was just a generalized statement.


Also, I am NOT forgetting about the new vette. The new vette drop top STARTS at 52,500..... Sorry, still more expensive. [img]smile.gif[/img] Motortrend ran a 13.2 with one and R&T ran a 12.69 with one...

[KBeezy]

And no, it doesnt use Cobra R heads...

Its a severely de-tuned Ford GT motor with a less-powerful blower [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Need4Camaro]

Originally posted by CANTONRACER:
I don't know how old you are so maybe you missed the slaughtering the 5.0's gave f-bodys for a long time. It was pretty bad. There was a time when 16 & 17 second timeslips were common for them. At least we had GN's to help out.

I should have said I was speaking of more recent models, and yes I was unaware of that.

Originally posted by CANTONRACER:
When the 98 f-bodies starting rolling out back in 97, their performance at the track at first was nothing spectacular. When I first saw LS1's at the track, they ran poor for what hype came with them. It was only after a few years that I started to see some pretty quick ones stock. I remember when the first 12 second LS1 was reported(I think it was in a Ford mag)...every LS1 owner that did not know better all of a sudden had a 12 second car...did not matter the timeslip said 13.7.

Since when has any stock car of that trim/class delivered any Super Impressive Numbers when it just rolled brand new out the factory? A car has to biuld a reputation, it isn't born with one. It takes time before the right driver and right car meet to set an impressive record.

Originally posted by CANTONRACER:
What I am getting it is don't be so quick to sell the 05 GT's short...they are making 270-280 rwhp/300-310 rwtq stock, good gearing(3.55), great rearend, nice suspension(very similar to f-body's in some ways)...

I never said they were slow, I'm just basically relaying the facts. When one matches up against an LS1, 9 times out of 10... the LS1 still wins. Infact I have heard several cases where even LT1's were besting them.

Originally posted by KBeezy:
The 2003 Mach 1 is more than just a restyled previous year cobra. The power curve has been changed, rearend swapped for a live axle instead of independant rear, different gears, different transmission. 03 Mach 1 & LS1 cars are pretty much the most fair competition there is, it comes down to mod vs mod and option vs option. An option free LS1 vs fully loaded Mach 1, or vice-versa, will have a severe effect on the outcome of the race.

The change in my honest oppinion still isn't great enough to consider it a superior leap above Cobra's of the previouse years, especially considering the fact that Stock for Stock, they're still only a Drivers Race.

[ December 30, 2005, 12:35 AM: Message edited by: Need4Camaro ]

[KBeezy]

And thats all I was trying to say about the Mach 1, thanks. [img]smile.gif[/img] It was just me trying to explain to those that doubt the Mach 1.


The change was made to make it more of a straight-line performer than the previous year Cobra which owned in the corners comparatively.