auto or manual

[Only4U]

ok guys, i know this is a popular question, but my car being an auto and all gets put down a LOT from friends and such--they are always saying that under the same modifications, a manual is going to absolutely rule over you. so, let's just say you have 2 '02 camaros, one is an auto, one is a manual. say you put an lsd and 3.23 gears on both cars and the same exhaust system and an intake on both. but you don't mess with the tranny at all because obviously the auto is going to rip up on the manual with a torque converter!!! now, if the driver is about as good as 19 year old driver gets, i know the manual would probably take maybe another 1/2 car-1 car length over the auto because he can power shift, or is it more than this (say quarter mile race too)? i need to know ya'lls personal experiences or beliefs...i don't want anyone to say something because they are biased. just the honest truth which one is quicker. i'm tired of getting my car put down, and somehow i get them pissed at me when i tell them the auto is not as big of a diff as they think--and i'm tired of that too. maybe i can end it with this. thx.

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

There are some really good manual drivers out there. But there isn't that many of them. It doen't take much skill to drive an auto really. Just experiment and mod your car till it hooks off the line. With a good converter you will beat on most manual cars and be a little ahead of those real good manual drivers. Converter in LS1s is worth upto .8 in a 1/4 and maybe upto .5 for 3.8s. It's hard to make that up.

[CamaroBill]

Don't forget, for the same or less $ as a torque converter for an auto. you can get steeper gears (say, something like 3.73s) for a manual (something auto. guys can't get away with because they will be screaming on the highway with 3.73s). Similar gains going from 3.23 to 3.73 in a 5-speed as getting a torque converter for an auto. (according to most sources that I see, about .4 - .5 in the quarter mile).

I personally think the big advantage to a stick is the fun factor [img]smile.gif[/img] . Even if an auto. was a full second quicker I'd still get the manual. Back in '96 I bought a 4-cyl. Beretta instead of a V6 because the V6 was only available with an auto.

[pgriffith]

Manuals are nice yes. I would too take a manual over an auto any day. But I do agree that an auto with a nice Converter and maybe a shift kit will shift faster than any manual.

[Jack]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Only4U:
...they are always saying that under the same modifications, a manual is going to absolutely rule over you. so, let's just say you have 2 '02 camaros, one is an auto, one is a manual. say you put an lsd and 3.23 gears on both cars and the same exhaust system and an intake on both... now, if the driver is about as good as 19 year old driver gets, i know the manual would probably take maybe another 1/2 car-1 car length over the auto because he can power shift, or is it more than this (say quarter mile race too)? i need to know ya'lls personal experiences or beliefs...i don't want anyone to say something because they are biased. just the honest truth which one is quicker. thx.<hr></blockquote>


Back to your original question...if they both had the same gear ratio the manual will be a little quicker because it doesn't suffer as much powertrain loss as an auto does. I had a friend in Abilene who had a new Camaro with Y87 and a4, from a stop he would always take me because my m5 has an open diff., I had to ease off to avoid spinning. From 20 mph was a different story, his 3.42's and my 3.23's were dead even. So to answer your question, yes in a perfect race with identical gearing and mods a stick will be slightly quicker, not a huge amount, and that will be dependant on the driver of the stick's abilities.

[Only4U]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>his 3.42's and my 3.23's <hr></blockquote>

ya, i've done a lot of searches that say 3.23 and 3.42 top end are the same.

i talked to the mechanic i work for today and he said the same cars with the same modifications in the quarter mile will finish dead even, he said with the avg manual driver, the auto would win and he said with an excellent driver the manual MIGHT take the lead by no more than half a car length--but the end would probably be dead even. he said in autocross it's a diff story because manuals have the advantage of shifting from 5th to 2nd or 4th to 2nd or something, and that makes sense--and that the auto has the huge advantage of torque converters in the quarter mile, which also makes sense.

my friend has a firebird manual and his mom might buy an auto firebird and eventually sell it to him and he's telling me how much he hates it because it's an auto and saying that autos just suck. he tells me that if he got an lsd and his $400 exhaust (already on there--didn't make a diff at all against my $100 exhaust), he would kill me and you can see in the sig what i've got. he says autos are just crappy...he wants to eventually mod out his manual...i don't think he realizes that without the torque converter, his car is going to easily miss out on .5 sec of valuable time. o well, should i be telling him to screw himself, or is he right, manuals are better?--and i don't want to hear about fun factors or yes, manuals are better cause you can shift when you want...i just want straight facts...

[ July 25, 2002: Message edited by: Only4U ]</p>

[*K*night Rider]

Too bad you dont pay attention to what your friend actually said.

By the way...torque converters are for autos only...unless you made some wild conversion.

[Only4U]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> he wants to eventually mod out his manual...i don't think he realizes that without the torque converter<hr></blockquote>

is that not what i just said?

[*K*night Rider]

Listen, Evan...I dont know what is wrong with you. But Im sorry if I offend you by liking standards better than autos.

Just please stop trashing me on the board that I invited you to and please stop leaving b!tch out IMs on my computer when I am away.

Sorry...IM me when you calm down.

Adam

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

Keep it on topic.

[*K*night Rider]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dom:
Keep it on topic.<hr></blockquote>

There was no topic in the first place. He is trying to get proof that I am wrong and he is right.

Evan, you are right. Now drop the whole thing, please.