building the stock tranny

[LETZRIDE]

so the grinding noise I was getting was from the tailshaft of the tranny, but we can't 100% locate it...f'k it, I never trusted this tranny so out its coming, I bought a junkyard trans with 48k on it for 250$ and I have the winter to take my sweet *** time and put it in.

I want to pick up an HD-2 shift kit, and I was thinking about a deep trans pan...what else can I do without "opening" the tranny perse to insure this lasts through the abuse it's gunna take come spring

Is there 2 corvette servos for these transmissions? or just the one? Because I know I currently have one right now in my current trans... I believe its just for the 1-2 shift though? what about 3-4?

[ssms5411]

Re: building the stock tranny

Vette servo is for the 1st and 2nd then the transgo will do 3rd and 4th.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: building the stock tranny

steve did you ever notice a difference with your deep trans pan? is it really needed if I am running a cooler already? Do you think it might be overkill?

[ssms5411]

Re: building the stock tranny

I haven't installed it yet waiting for my next tranny fluid change, I would say if your hard on the car then it would be a good idea.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: building the stock tranny

Ive heard things about going with pinless pistons or servos or something...does anyone know about this?

[ssms5411]

Re: building the stock tranny

I never heard anything about them. But thats not saying alot.lol

[Skinny]

Re: building the stock tranny

Leave the corvette servos alone, get billet parts. Much better holding power. I've never used the pinless accumulators (sonnax makes them) in any of my builds.

How far do you want to go into the trans? If you're willing to remove the valvebody then the transgo kit is pretty good. If not, then the deep pan and servo is about all you can do.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: building the stock tranny

See I was looking at going with the billet servos, but I've read that you shouldn't mix them with the transgo shift kit unless you are beefing up the hard parts as well as it's more likely to lead to failure.

I don't mind installing a transgo, I'll have a buddy help me, and the new trans is out of the car on the garage floor right now, so accessibility issues aren't a problem.

I don't want to get into taking the pump and innards out because I don't know anything about a tranny and techniques to put it back together reliably.

So basically I'm looking to slightly beef up the stock trans with 48k on it to the point where it will be capable of holding 300-350rwhp with a stall converter and be able to handle DD duty.

I was reading something about an extra release valvebody for the 2-3 shift to let the pressure bleed out so that the band doesn't stick and burn those clutches under a hard shift condition

[LETZRIDE]

Re: building the stock tranny

new question...can we use that australian malwood adapter (that warshrike is using for his T-56 swap) to bolt up a 4l80e transmission?

[Bobd1001]

Re: building the stock tranny

TransGo HD-2 Shift Kit was the best investment I ever made into my trans, along with a new TCC valve

[Skinny]

Re: building the stock tranny

See I was looking at going with the billet servos, but I've read that you shouldn't mix them with the transgo shift kit unless you are beefing up the hard parts as well as it's more likely to lead to failure.

Honestly I've never combined the two when I wasn't doing a complete performance build, so you may be right. Of course, adding nitrous is more likely to lead to failure as well, but that doesn't stop too many people.

new question...can we use that australian malwood adapter (that warshrike is using for his T-56 swap) to bolt up a 4l80e transmission?

Even if you could, do you think it would be worth the time/effort/money?

capable of holding 300-350rwhp with a stall converter and be able to handle DD duty

Given your stated goal, a 4L80E is absurd.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: building the stock tranny

^4L80e has better gearing as well, to be honest the main reason its crossing my mind is I am seeing guys on tech picking them up for 300-500$...adapter is 400$...I'll need to convert to a crossmember mounted tq arm (which I am going to do anyways with this build)...what else do I need, a new converter? Well I'd be selling my current to get that...

To be honest I see it costing as much or less than getting something like a performabuilt, but yet wayyy stronger. Probably overkill for me, but that makes the car reliable atleast right?

The OD gear sucks though cause its 0.75 rather than .70 like the 60e.

My biggest issue is its tough finding info on our trannies on the v6 boards...I'm kind of in the middle with my build...I'm not as extreme as linx, and turbov6camaro and some of those guys...but we're beyond just bolt ons and a minor cam swap as well... We do firmly believe she'll pull 12's, and I don't see many of these cars that were DD running that to know that their trannies were holding up.

Sooo, that means I go on ls1tech for a lot of tranny info (which I hate doing) because all I see is guys *****ing about how they broke the tranny with stock power and a stall, and the 4L60e sucks this and that...not the most comforting, so I'm stuck in limbo.

I still find it hard to believe my car needed a ford 8.8 to stop breaking rear ends...I personally don't feel that the power the car is making was really enough to break stuff...

[Skinny]

Re: building the stock tranny

The 4L80E has better gearing for what? The 4L60E has a steeper 1st and 2nd gear which is much better for off-the-line acceleration.
4L60e - 3.06, 1.63, 1.00, 0.70
4L80e - 2.48, 1.48, 1.00, 0.75

That really is a noticeable difference. When I swapped from the 4L60e to a TH350 in my race car, I had to spray more off the line to get it moving because of the change in first gear ( same gearing as the 4L80e).



Don't forget about a way to control that 4L80e. The PCM needs to be programmed to control it, if that's even possible with the 96 3.8 PCM. If not, you'll need an independent controller. Last time I checked (which was a good while back), they were running in the $900 range.

For the torque converter, you'll need to have someone make one for a 3.8/4L80e combination so it will have the right snout size, depth, and spline count. I know FTI could do it, but they'd probably want at least $700.

What else do you need? A driveshaft. The 4L80e is longer than the 4L60e so you would need a shorter driveshaft. You might be able to have the stock one shortened, but you're still near $300 if you're lucky. Don't forget the crossmember to mount it to either.

As for finding info on the trans, if it's on LS1Tech, it's gotta be true, right? :rolleyes: I've built a number of 4L60e's for street cars putting down 500+ rwhp. On track cars, that kind of power level requires a refresh every year or so, but street cars have no problem with it.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: building the stock tranny

The 4L80E has better gearing for what? The 4L60E has a steeper 1st and 2nd gear which is much better for off-the-line acceleration.
4L60e - 3.06, 1.63, 1.00, 0.70
4L80e - 2.48, 1.48, 1.00, 0.75

That really is a noticeable difference. When I swapped from the 4L60e to a TH350 in my race car, I had to spray more off the line to get it moving because of the change in first gear ( same gearing as the 4L80e).



Don't forget about a way to control that 4L80e. The PCM needs to be programmed to control it, if that's even possible with the 96 3.8 PCM. If not, you'll need an independent controller. Last time I checked (which was a good while back), they were running in the $900 range.

For the torque converter, you'll need to have someone make one for a 3.8/4L80e combination so it will have the right snout size, depth, and spline count. I know FTI could do it, but they'd probably want at least $700.

What else do you need? A driveshaft. The 4L80e is longer than the 4L60e so you would need a shorter driveshaft. You might be able to have the stock one shortened, but you're still near $300 if you're lucky. Don't forget the crossmember to mount it to either.

For some reason I thought we could use the v8 torque converters...so that kinda sucks. I know I'd have to have the d/s shortened...as far as controlling it, I was considering going with a quarter stick and just going full manual override with it.

From what I got on tech, it seemed the longer 1-2 gears actually decreased 1/4mile time...but maybe that was just on higher hp cars that maybe rendered our 1-2 gear ratios useless with that kind of power. (and it was some FI cars as well)

As for finding info on the trans, if it's on LS1Tech, it's gotta be true, right? :rolleyes: I've built a number of 4L60e's for street cars putting down 500+ rwhp. On track cars, that kind of power level requires a refresh every year or so, but street cars have no problem with it

And this is exactly why I hate finding info on ls1tech...there is soo much B.S to sift through over there and I don't have as many people that I trust as over here.

This is why I prefer getting info off this forum whenever possible as I have certain people like yourself and some others that I trust when it comes to certain info as I know you have good background knowledge and experience in this area (as I can read up on years of information Ive taken from certain individuals on this forum)....don't get me wrong, I take EVERYONE's advice (not to discourage anyone from helping me) I just weigh certain people's opinion/experiences more than others.

You mention "track cars"...what defines track car?...My car gets used 8 months a year as a DD, and I do about 15,000 miles in it in that 8 months roughly...on top of that it sees the track 3-5 times with slicks (so it gets abused)...street driving it pretty abusive as well...I do open it up quite a bit.

My thing is I don't want to refresh it every year. I got this current stock trans with low mileage for 250$...thats lucky...Im not going to find that ever year, which means its 1600$ for a rebuild (what my last rebuild costed)...at that price, 3200$ comes in 2 years real fast...I would much rather save that money and put it into something bulletproof like the 4l80e if that is going to be the case (that way I can put it in and forget about it)...thats why I am exploring that venue.

I want something reliable, obviously if I can be confident that I can do some work to this 4l60e and have it hold the power and be reliable in my car that would be the best way to go and easiest route.

What are you doing in your rebuilds, what parts are you putting in, why? and where are YOU buying them from?

[Skinny]

Re: building the stock tranny

By a "track car" I'm referring to something that sees 150+ passes a year. Also I said they need a refresh every year or so when they're at higher power levels (500+ at the wheels AND 150+ track passes/year).

Honestly I think you'd end up spending more on putting a stock 4L80e in there than you would on a performance rebuild in the 4L60e. And stock 4L80e's aren't bulletproof either. Sooner or later you WILL need a rebuild, matter what you have in there.

As for what parts I generally use- for most street builds, I use Borg Warner high energy clutches. I use Alto reds on some. They're more expensive, but honestly I don't know that they're any better than the BW's. Borg Warner also offers an extra wide band that I always use. There's also a good 3-4 clutch set called the "Z-pak" (don't remember who makes it) that I've only used a couple times but it seems to be holding up really well. For hard parts in every build I use a hardened sun shell (the "Beast" or any other brand, they're all the same), and I almost always put a new GM input drum in it. In my experience, most of the aftermarket drums aren't reliable. I also use a billet 2/4 servo. I don't remember the brand but I'll check it and let you know. 5 pinion planet sets are a great upgrade, although they're pretty pricey. For valvebody upgrades, I use the transgo kits.

I get all my trans parts from a local supplier in Jacksonville, FL.

With all this said, I really think you'd do well to just put the transgo kit in there, do a servo upgrade (whether it's a billet kit or the corvette one) and you're good to go. Save your core and if/when you need to visit the transmission again, build it and swap the upgraded valvebody and servos over.