What are oil catch cans and why are they important? - FirebirdV6.com/CamaroV6.com Message Board

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  • What are oil catch cans and why are they important?

    This video does a fantastic job of explaining them as well as telling you what you should be looking for when you purchase one:


    2002 SOM Z28 Camaro - 12.9 @ 104 mph
    1996 3800 Camaro - 13.43 @ 100.77 mph


    Project Cars | How To Guides | Scratch Repair | Synthetic Oil

  • #2
    Warshrike did a good write up on that. I hope to do that to my bird since I blocked off my pvc.

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    • #3
      Mines been blocked since 2002, still going strong. Lol
      08' L76 6.0L 4X4 Chevy EXT.Cab LTZ Vortec MAX with Snug top cover, Dynomax exhaust,Hptuners& K&N intake
      96' Camaro M5 to A4 conversion, alot of mods ,see Homepage. GT35R Turbo http://www.cardomain.com/ride/244123...vrolet-camaro/
      https://www.facebook.com/steve.starcher.18

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      • #4
        I will share more technical data as well as links to better understand how GDI engines are impacted and actual independent testing that anyone can perform to actually and accurately test a catchcan for effectiveness.

        First, here is a Ford Master Tech explaining (beware, teamRXP is NOT affiliated with us and is a scumbag counterfeiter!!) why you need a proper system:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6h_FOzFMcs&t=1205s

        And here are the results of adding a proper effective system to your vehicle AFTER the crankcase and oil has become saturated with the damage and wear causing mixture of water, acids, fuel, and abrasive particulate matter:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT0kpHpGQJ8

        And how to perform a catchcan test: (start at the 18 minute mark if you want to jump to the results as it is a long video)

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZYYdnwIEX0&t=1326s

        As you can see, even the designs claimed to be the best rarely trap more than 30% allowing most of the gunk to still be ingested causing the issues.

        And more:

        https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=512223

        Above is GM's latest LGX series of GDI V6. The old port injection V6's of the gen 3 & 4 did not have these issues as the fuel injectors sprayed the backsides of the valves with fuel keeping them cool and clean as you can see here in a LY7 engine (prior to the release of the LLT GDI V6):

        As you can see, anywhere the fuel spray hit no deposits could form.

        And here is what the average LLT or LFX looks like at 50-60k miles in comparison:


        Now here is what a valve looks like when new. Notice the shape, the undercut stem, the satin swirl finish to the tulip portion of the valve. ALL are designed for equal and efficient flow of the incoming air charge. When this is disrupted, each cylinder no longer gets equal air, so some with less build up are running leaner than those running richer with more build up.


        So that is just one problem with GDI engines. Another serious issue is fuel dilution of the engine oil.

        Today's vehicles are specified by the factory to run super thin viscosity oils. Why? Well if you ask the dealer, they will give a canned BS reply about closer tolerances, etc. Today's engines are built much more precisely that engines of the past, but the tolerances are NOT any tighter as far as rod and main bearing clearances. The real reason has nothing to do with whats best to protect your engine and here is why:

        International CAFE fuel economy standards have forced automakers to do everything possible to meet these requirements, and the reduction in windage cause loss helps meet these, but at the sacrifice of the engines longevity. As the fuel is introduced directly into the combustion chamber at between 2,000-3,000 PSI (some engines over 5,000 psi!) 8-12 times the amount of raw fuel is pushed past the piston rings washing lubrication from the cylinder walls and diluting the already then oil even further. ONLY use a full synthetic, and a 5w50 or 0w50 Mobile1 or my favorite is Amsoil Signature Series.

        Now, as the PCV systems are designed to be less and less effective, (GM deleted the "Positive" function from the new LGX engine) in order to try and reduce the rate and severity of the coking deposit formation, they now are leaving much of these wear and damage causing substances to accumulate in the crankcase contaminating the engine oil.

        Here is a summary of a 2 year study conducted by one of the largest and most respected lubrication Labs in the World using our Patented design for separating and trapping app. 95% of these on a fleet of new GDI equipped vehicles. This summary is on an ecoboost:

        Final results of 2 year study








        Here is a brief summary of what was documented in the 2 year testing by one of the Worlds largest Lubrication companies:




        The RX/Tracy Lewis Performance system was tested on the most severe engine on the road today as far as GDI related issues. The testing was performed on a fleet of new vehicles including GM and others, but they only focused on the results of the Ford Ecoboost engines as they experience the most severe GDI related effects.




        First, here is how the testing was performed. Each vehicle has been run through proper break-in and driven over 10k miles to eliminate ring seating variance, etc.




        Then the vehicle would be run for app 5-6k miles on their premium full synthetic oil and a sample drawn...this is without our system installed. Then, our system is installed on that same oil fill, no oil change, and then run another 4-5k miles and another sample drawn and at that time oil is drained and changed.




        Here are some examples on just viscosity and fuel dilution:




        Miles on vehicle: 55060 Ford 3.5L Ecoboost




        Miles on oil when sample drawn: 5,943 Fuel dilution: 5.6% Viscosity @40*C: 45.71 Viscosity @100*C: 8.76 (Now, vehicle is driven and sample drawn below)



        Miles on oil when sample drawn: 9,411 Fuel dilution: 3.86% Viscosity @40*C: 46.98 Viscosity @100*C: 8.82 (Even AFTER saturation well above the industry 5% threshold where oil is considered "condemned" or no longer able to protect the engine our system was able to not only prevent further fuel dilution and viscosity degradation, but actually IMPROVED each taking the oil that was no longer usable and extending it's ability to protect far longer.




        Now, that was the least dramatic result....some were as high as fuel dilution levels of 7% to above 12% by 5k miles (cold start enrichment in cool/cold conditions adds to dilution far quicker) and we were able to bring those levels down even more dramatically, in some cases by as much as 50% less after a few thousand miles WITH our system installed.




        Other benefits documented: Average fuel economy increases of 1-3 MPG due to a cleaner burn with the contaminants removed from the PCV vapors as more energy is released with just air and fuel present during the combustion process. This also shows a significant reduction in knock retard as pre-ignition is reduced and combined with a cleaner burn in the combustion chamber, reduces emissions as well as improves fuel economy.




        As our system converts the PCV system to full time evacuation and flushing VS part time as the OEM systems come and retains a closed emissions compliant system.




        This prevents the stagnant periods of operation when the contaminants and combustion by-products that enter as blow-by and are the primary source of oil contamination and our system greatly reduces this by removing these at all times the engine is running utilizing 2 separate evacuation suction sources, the intake manifold vacuum for when reversion pluses are not canceling it out (during acceleration or hard operation no evacuation suction is present stock), and using the Venturi effect when accelerating or running high RPM/throttle.




        On GDI engines (most all Automakers are now 100% GDI) we have the additional benefit of reducing the intake valve coking issue by as much as 85% (we cannot eliminate all as these engines use variable valve events to allow back filling of exhaust gasses back into the port behind the valves to be re-burnt emulating the outdated EGR system/valves of old.




        To summarize, the benefits:




        Engine life extended to 2-3 times expected life w.out the system installed.




        Fuel economy increase of 1-3 MPG average.




        Extended oil drain intervals allowing from 50% to 100% longer use of oil reducing pollution from improperly disposed of drain oil.




        Reduced tailpipe emissions. As we remove most of the compounds causing a incomplete burn in the combustion process reducing the amount of emissions.




        Reduction of intake valve deposits by as much as 85%.




        The downside is these MUST be drained and the contents collected disposed of properly as with any drain oil. every 5k miles as a rule (will vary from engine to engine depending on state of piston ring seal to cylinder walls).




        We do have a system that never needs to be emptied or service for in excess of 100k miles, but not released yet that could be retrofitted at a later date.




        What is in the contents of the system that are removed from the engine crankcase vapors?




        Here is a sample after a 2400 mile drain after being spun in a centrifuge to separate all for analysis:







        70% was acidic water (the sulfuric acid produced during the combustion process cannot be separated from the water).

        23% was raw fuel (GDI engines introduce fuel at well over 2,000 PSI and this pushes many times the amount past the rings of old port injection systems that operated at 45-50 PSI)

        and only 7% was actual oil, and it is saturated with abrasive particulate matter.




        This other wise would have remained in the crankcase mixing with and contaminating the engine oil, and also contaminating the intake air charge reducing the over efficiency of the engines combustion process.



        And here is what the contents of what was trapped come out to when spun in the centrifuge and tested in the lab:



        I will leave this to digest and invite members to ask specific questions and will do my best to clarify and answer more, but education and understanding all of this is critical if you want to get the most out of your engine. There is a reason engine warranties have been cut in half to 1/3 of what they were in the past with Port Injection engines.







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        • #5
          Thanks Tracy - this is awesome information!

          2002 SOM Z28 Camaro - 12.9 @ 104 mph
          1996 3800 Camaro - 13.43 @ 100.77 mph


          Project Cars | How To Guides | Scratch Repair | Synthetic Oil

          Comment


          • #6
            Very good analysis. ( Same analysis presented in many sites from ELITE engineering )

            However, would be interesting to have data regarding the same test on a GM V6 LLT, LFX, or even better the LGX.
            We can't take these results as the bible for every engine, because these are data from a Ford 3.5L Ecoboost engine and we are talking about something completely different.
            Last edited by Flavio; 4 weeks ago.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Flavio View Post
              Very good analysis. ( Same analysis presented in many sites from ELITE engineering )

              However, would be interesting to have data regarding the same test on a GM V6 LLT, LFX, or even better the LGX.
              We can't take these results as the bible for every engine, because these are data from a Ford 3.5L Ecoboost engine and we are talking about something completely different.
              It's always great to see things done on these Camaro's. I think the analysis is there to show how it all works. There is no doubt the LLT/LFX and LGX motor benefit from a catch can, but I agree would be nice to see some analysis done on the Camaro engines too.

              2002 SOM Z28 Camaro - 12.9 @ 104 mph
              1996 3800 Camaro - 13.43 @ 100.77 mph


              Project Cars | How To Guides | Scratch Repair | Synthetic Oil

              Comment


              • #8
                Simple question is - do you want engine oil in your intake manifold?

                I designed a PCV re-route through a Moroso oil separator back to the TB - amazing the amount of oil in the PCV air.
                Robert - owner www.FirebirdV6.com "Mid-life crisis? I'm way beyond that!"

                1996 Black Firebird GTxxxRam Air V6 w/ M5xxxwww.FirebirdGT.com

                Raven

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