gears and suspension mods

[SpeedingFirebird]

I've done some searching, but I decided a discussion my give more info.

I was looking into putting 3.73s in my car. Now, if I want to autox it, I would skip the posi, right? From what I understand about posi, it makes the car harder to handle - is my understanding correct? I am a gear idiot, so any recommendations as to what to get is welcome.

I am also looking into a set of bilsteins and dropping the car ~1.5. I know this will help the handling. Are there any gotchas I have to watch out for?

I have not decided which mod to do next. Probably one of those two. Either one, I will have the shop do :(

Thanks again for the tips. Unfortunately, I missed the SCCA meeting last weekend because I could not get a babysitter. If the meetings were not so late, I will bring mini-me with me.

[ September 23, 2005, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: SpeedingFirebird ]

[dmw319]

do shocks and springs first. and do them both at the same time. this is the biggest and best thing (and most expensive) that you need/should do.

then do LCAs, sway bars, panhard bar, etc.

[SpeedingFirebird]

Originally posted by dmw319:
do shocks and springs first. and do them both at the same time. this is the biggest and best thing (and most expensive) that you need/should do.

Why do these before the gears? The main reason for doing this is looks (lowering the car).

Originally posted by dmw319:

then do LCAs, sway bars, panhard bar, etc.

Yikes. Lost me there brother. LCA - lower control arm? What's the benefit of doing all of these parts?

[dmw319]

you said you wanted autox. so i was just giving my suggestion.

it doesnt matter whether you do gears or springs/shocks first. either one is fine. but still... if you upgrade the springs.. upgrade the shocks as well. its very important.

LCA's help with traction control and sway bars etc help with handling. once again you said you wanted a good autox setup.. and there is a lot involved there when it comes to suspension.

[SpeedingFirebird]

Yeah, I figured I was going to do a lot of suspension work. I am just trying to figure out what things I need to look out for as I change my setup. For example, I am changing the gears - shoud I avoid posi? That sort of stuff.

[dmw319]

IMO you would want posi.. but i dont know much about it. it came on my car stock. im suprised no one else has chirped in..

[V6Bob]

All things have tradeoffs.

Posi plus - stops spinning the inside rear coming off a corner, particularly a slow one. Minus - when both rears do break loose, the rear has a tendancy to come around. My take - the first is more important. Driving skill (not breaking the rears loose and dealing with the consequences) will deal with the second.

Lowering plus - lower center of gravity for weight transfer. Stiffer springs give better camber control at the front. Minuses - screws up supension geometry. My take - IDK.

Most important thing - get a rulebook. Realize that, if you take yourself out of Stock class, you will be up against some seriously well and expensively modded cars with dedicated autocross tires, and some very serious drivers.

[HokieBird]

Listen to V6Bob. Get a rule book and read up on what class your car is in and what can be done without changing classes because with your mods you are already out of the stock class.

[Vracer111]

Originally posted by SpeedingFirebird:
I've done some searching, but I decided a discussion my give more info.

I was looking into putting 3.73s in my car. Now, if I want to autox it, I would skip the posi, right? From what I understand about posi, it makes the car harder to handle - is my understanding correct? I am a gear idiot, so any recommendations as to what to get is welcome.

I am also looking into a set of bilsteins and dropping the car ~1.5. I know this will help the handling. Are there any gotchas I have to watch out for?

I have not decided which mod to do next. Probably one of those two. Either one, I will have the shop do :(

Thanks again for the tips. Unfortunately, I missed the SCCA meeting last weekend because I could not get a babysitter. If the meetings were not so late, I will bring mini-me with me.

If the dampers are stock ones or any cheap brand replacements (monroe, etc...)then the first thing I would get are Bilstein HD's or better dampers (Koni Sports).

The Torsen differential is very beneficial to vehicle handling. It will distribute the available traction much better than a stock open differential - giving the outside rear more of the power since it can handle much more than the inside rear. To benefit fully from a Torsen differential you need good high performance tires though. So if you don't have max performance summer tires or dedicated race tires those would take priority over the Torsen differential.

The 3.73 differential gear will help with acceleration, but still I would put that behind getting a Torsen differential. Cornering grip/transitional response is priority over acceleration/engine output ability. Sort out suspension first then worry about adding more power... assuming the driver is already capable in driving the vehicle to its full potential of course.

I'd recommend searching around on www.frrax.com if you are considering lowering the car. Basically it's not a simple task of just lowering it with springs and your done. Handling will not be made better by just lowering it with springs it seems because of the nature of the front and rear suspension design.

One thing you might have overlooked... the brake system. If you can stop precisely and hard it is an advantage. A setup that works very well (with the 98+ camaros at least) is Hawk HP+ pads front with Hawk HPS pads rear on stock rotors. Will flat out haul you down from speed repeatably with no fade and works great on the street and when autocrossing. Braking also helps out with turn-in...

So your priorities should be along these lines:
1. Having adequate dampers (Bilstein HD's at a minimum)
2. Having adequate tires
3. Having adequate brake pads F/R

Then you can worry about

4. Torsen differential installation
5. 3.73 differential gear installation

[ September 28, 2005, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: Vracer111 ]

[SpeedingFirebird]

My shocks and struts are stock originals. I was considering doing the springs at the same time to save time and money (I will have a shop do the struts, likely). I was looking at Bilstein HDs for replacements.

My tires are decent. When I bought the car, it was a daily driver, so I needed something for that. Once I wear the tread off, I was going to go to a racing tire.

The brakes are a good point. I was considering upgrading them at some point in time.

I was thinking of the gears due to the "no leak" rule. My pumkin is damp (not dripping), so I figured I while I had it off, I might as well change the gears (hey, it's any excuse :) ).

What mods to I have the move me out of the stock class? Just curious.

yes, I need a rule book. The group I want to join meets on Monday nights, and my wife has class so I have to watch my son. Hopefully, after this semester I can get to a **** meeting.

[HokieBird]

Originally posted by SpeedingFirebird:
What mods do I have that move me out of the stock class? Just curious.

Intake, Shifter, and high flow cat would bump you into STX (I think). I know you are allowed a cat back in stock, but you can't do intake. It kind of stinks because those mods really don't make enough of a difference, but those are the rules.

In the end I doubt you are going out to try to take home a national championship in the bird. So, just have fun in whatever class you land in. Last time I drove auto cross I pulled better times than 2 Z28s and thats all that mattered to me. [img]graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]

[SpeedingFirebird]

That's exactly it. I just want to hit the track for the fun of it. I doubt I will win anything even in the stock class. People where I live drive very expensive cars. My parking lot at work is all Audi's, Bimmers, Jags, etc.

What I need to do is get to a meeting and buy a helmet. I did get some conflicting advice before (well, everyone said to get one that SA rated helmet), but I have not decided on open or closed faced. I wanted to talk to the people in the meeting first.

Otherwise, I am psyched to get started. I am concerned they will tell me I cannot drive the car due to the damp pumkin, PS boiling over (I have synthetic, I just need to change it), and some moisture on the oil pan.