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I read somewhere that it will equal 50 billion total from tax payers. And of course on top of it, more ppl lose jobs, more businesses close, and then more ppl lose jobs. O and yeah the government controls even more business...
they were going to nationalize the auto industry, the ford threw a money wrench in it and didnt take the money
so...the government now owns what used to be a private companies...didnt hitler and karl marx have the same philosophies?
Team NoVa
2000 Firebird- Intake, Pacesetters, !cat, full 2.5 to flowcrapster, 1.9 rockers, LS6 springs and Intense modded retainers, WS6 speedlines, T/A bumpers and hatch, 5 spd swapped, SOON TO BE nitrous'd and cammed.
I disagree...unions play a big part in there downfall. But I really dont feel like getting into the whole union agrument again.
I belonged to the same union they have...I know how much they suck and how much they bring companies down...hell, one of the reasons my place shut down and put more then 450 people out of a job...and I wasnt even the auto sector...
Union is part of it. Here in Calif. it is messed up the teacher's union, library union, GE union, water dept. union, prison guards union, Fire Dept, police union....yada, yada, yada. The pay, benefit, and such is too much. Calif is dead broke and in debt. Nobody wants to take a pay cut or down size. Last month Calif. almost voted in for the high tax increase in the nation. I'm glad it didn't pass. Now the unions are forced to renegotiate their contracts, pay, and benefit. Massive layoff all over the place.
GM's fault is relying on SUV's and Trucks to bail them out. With gas prices that failed.
so...the government now owns what used to be a private companies...didnt hitler and karl marx have the same philosophies?
Kind of what I was getting at. I really dont want to say too much here but there are many other things that you can compare. The weak are getting weaker and the stronger get more power...
How about you just tell all of us how the union's destroyed GM? That way you actually have to prove your point instead of talking out your a$$?
because they are demanding stuff that gm cant provide
then they go on strike, gm has no workers so they have to make an agreement
they make the agreement and then cant afford higher quality parts for their cars because they are paying someone $70,000 a year to put on 4 lugnuts, not to mention paying for thousands of workers healthcare crap
their quality starts to suffer, people lose their faith in the company and buy something else
gm sees that they are in the hole by millions of dollars and tries to make a comeback, but they were already hurt by people saying they make junk cars, nobody bought the cars even with the semi better quality parts and GM loses even more money, and then again the union workers want even MORE from gm when they cant even afford what they are doing now
so then after all of this, gm's stock prices go way low because they are taking loans out to pay old loans off, their credit falls, they become a more risky company, they cant afford to pay dividends on stocks because now that the companies risk has went up, in turn they have to pay even higher dividends, stockholders see that they cant pay dividends, sell their stocks, price goes WAY low, gm cant sell stocks anymore, so their investment in the stocks is ruined, meaning they cant get any new capital, and no banks will lend them money, and nobody will buy bonds, so they are losing even MORE money now
then guess what, the UAW comes back and wants even MORE from the company, do you still want me to go on?
i dont think it is a coincidence that the biggest boom of the UAW started happening in the mid to late 70's, and the quality of the cars just so happened to start declining around that time
i dont think it is a coincidence that the biggest boom of the UAW started happening in the mid to late 70's, and the quality of the cars just so happened to start declining around that time
when i say quality, i am talking about the quality of the parts they used and not the actual quality of the car itself.. for instance using lower quality plastic pieces instead of padded materials.
because they are demanding stuff that gm cant provide
then they go on strike, gm has no workers so they have to make an agreement
they make the agreement and then cant afford higher quality parts for their cars because they are paying someone $70,000 a year to put on 4 lugnuts, not to mention paying for thousands of workers healthcare crap
their quality starts to suffer, people lose their faith in the company and buy something else
gm sees that they are in the hole by millions of dollars and tries to make a comeback, but they were already hurt by people saying they make junk cars, nobody bought the cars even with the semi better quality parts and GM loses even more money, and then again the union workers want even MORE from gm when they cant even afford what they are doing now
so then after all of this, gm's stock prices go way low because they are taking loans out to pay old loans off, their credit falls, they become a more risky company, they cant afford to pay dividends on stocks because now that the companies risk has went up, in turn they have to pay even higher dividends, stockholders see that they cant pay dividends, sell their stocks, price goes WAY low, gm cant sell stocks anymore, so their investment in the stocks is ruined, meaning they cant get any new capital, and no banks will lend them money, and nobody will buy bonds, so they are losing even MORE money now
then guess what, the UAW comes back and wants even MORE from the company, do you still want me to go on?
i dont think it is a coincidence that the biggest boom of the UAW started happening in the mid to late 70's, and the quality of the cars just so happened to start declining around that time
If GM can't provide it then why did they? Why did GM pay their CEO $15.7 million over the course of Fiscal Year 2007? You know how many guys you could have paid $70k a year to put on four lugnuts AND still given the CEO $400k? (btw, the President of the United States makes $400k/yr...just for perspective.)
Let's do the math.
$15,700,000 - $400,000 = $15,300,000
$15,300,000 / $70,000 = 218.57
The GM Powertrain Plant (also referred to as the "Allison Transmission Plant", which manufactures the transmissions for all of GM's Trucks) employs 202 workers. So, essentially, GM paid their CEO as much as the labor cost to operate one of their plants, assuming everyone working in the plant made $70k a year (which is highly unlikely).
As for your comment regarding strikes...no, they didn't HAVE to amend. There was an alternative. HIRE NEW PEOPLE. Turnover isn't the most pleasant thing in the world, but hey, it sure seems to keep labor costs down from a business perspective.
And Healthcare "Crap"? Do you receive healthcare incentives from your place of employment? If yes, why? Oh, that's right, I forgot. If you didn't have it your medical bills would be entirely impossible to pay out-of-pocket. If healthcare is "crap", then why is it such a big argument on the political spectrum, and why do so many countries give FREE HEALTHCARE? Hell, if we could do that, then GM wouldn't have to pay for it! Not the union's fault, but the Government's.
And GM can't afford quality parts because they're salaries are too high...hmm...possible solution....maybe RAISE THE PRICE OF THE CAR? Can you buy a base model BMW or Volkswagen for $12,685? NO. But you can get a Chevy Aveo Sedan for the much... And let me see...if they increased the price of the car by say...$3,000, that's $3k more they can use to put higher quality parts in their vehicles, because clearly they're happy with their profit margin selling the car at $12k and if you put all off the additional monies into the production of the car, then profit margin doesn't change!
Moreover, the quality of a part is affected more by the design and engineering of the part, you can make two parts out of the same type of steel using the same machines, both designed to do the same thing, and one can operate flawlessly, while the other, if designed just a little differently, can fail regularly. I mean...come on...we know these things as common knowledge.
Plus, GM's inventory numbers are way too high. They need to lower their supply of vehicles, that way, they have more availible operating cash to stregthen their balance sheet.
And how about the 6,000 some dealers in the US alone? Talk about spreading thin... how on earth do you expect a dealer or GM to make money when a person can go to three different chevy dealerships in town and everyone beats the last ones price by $300 each? By the time it stops, there's no gross profit left in the deal. There's no way for GM to afford to operate. Volkswagen has 600 dealerships in the US. And it's proving to work. Not to mention they're outselling GM and have been, even though they have one-tenth the amount of Dealerships.
There's so much more to this than just the Union's, and the CEO's. There's so much more to the auto business than you realize when you're just an outsider looking in. So please, before you decide to talk out your *** like you know everything about something you don't even do, think again.
Sit down, Shut up, and get ready for a bumpy F*cking ride. Dumba$$.
you're calling me a dumbass when you obviously have no idea how a company works?
please, i didnt take 2 straight years of accounting and finance classes for nothing.
paying the CEO of a company less money would be disastrous in the stock holders eyes, it is a sign of weakness from the company, if GM did that people would try and sell their stocks like hotcakes
and when i say healthcare, im talking about giving all of the ex gm employees free healthcare for the rest of their life, im in no way talking about current employees having healthcare.
i am all for discussing something, but if someone is going to call me a dumbass because of their lack of understanding how a company operates, im not going to say anything further.
you're calling me a dumbass when you obviously have no idea how a company works?
please, i didnt take 2 straight years of accounting and finance classes for nothing.
paying the CEO of a company less money would be disastrous in the stock holders eyes, it is a sign of weakness from the company, if GM did that people would try and sell their stocks like hotcakes
and when i say healthcare, im talking about giving all of the ex gm employees free healthcare for the rest of their life, im in no way talking about current employees having healthcare.
i am all for discussing something, but if someone is going to call me a dumbass because of their lack of understanding how a company operates, im not going to say anything further.
In other words...
Shut down.
I'm glad you took finance and accounting classes. Learning about APR and LTV are great things, and it sure is nice that you know how to use Excel and calculate taxes, but that sure doesn't make you an expert on the stock market, and it definetly doesn't supply you with any knowledge about how the automobile industry operates.
I'm done. It's sad that GM had to file, because the GM we all know won't be the same ever again.
i dont understand you people sometimes. its not anything to fight about, there should be no "dumb ***" calling around here. quit acting like a little kid and lets discuss this like adults damn iT!
Team NoVa
2000 Firebird- Intake, Pacesetters, !cat, full 2.5 to flowcrapster, 1.9 rockers, LS6 springs and Intense modded retainers, WS6 speedlines, T/A bumpers and hatch, 5 spd swapped, SOON TO BE nitrous'd and cammed.
If GM can't provide it then why did they? Why did GM pay their CEO $15.7 million over the course of Fiscal Year 2007? You know how many guys you could have paid $70k a year to put on four lugnuts AND still given the CEO $400k? (btw, the President of the United States makes $400k/yr...just for perspective.)
Let's do the math.
$15,700,000 - $400,000 = $15,300,000
$15,300,000 / $70,000 = 218.57
The GM Powertrain Plant (also referred to as the "Allison Transmission Plant", which manufactures the transmissions for all of GM's Trucks) employs 202 workers. So, essentially, GM paid their CEO as much as the labor cost to operate one of their plants, assuming everyone working in the plant made $70k a year (which is highly unlikely).
As for your comment regarding strikes...no, they didn't HAVE to amend. There was an alternative. HIRE NEW PEOPLE. Turnover isn't the most pleasant thing in the world, but hey, it sure seems to keep labor costs down from a business perspective.
And Healthcare "Crap"? Do you receive healthcare incentives from your place of employment? If yes, why? Oh, that's right, I forgot. If you didn't have it your medical bills would be entirely impossible to pay out-of-pocket. If healthcare is "crap", then why is it such a big argument on the political spectrum, and why do so many countries give FREE HEALTHCARE? Hell, if we could do that, then GM wouldn't have to pay for it! Not the union's fault, but the Government's.
And GM can't afford quality parts because they're salaries are too high...hmm...possible solution....maybe RAISE THE PRICE OF THE CAR? Can you buy a base model BMW or Volkswagen for $12,685? NO. But you can get a Chevy Aveo Sedan for the much... And let me see...if they increased the price of the car by say...$3,000, that's $3k more they can use to put higher quality parts in their vehicles, because clearly they're happy with their profit margin selling the car at $12k and if you put all off the additional monies into the production of the car, then profit margin doesn't change!
Moreover, the quality of a part is affected more by the design and engineering of the part, you can make two parts out of the same type of steel using the same machines, both designed to do the same thing, and one can operate flawlessly, while the other, if designed just a little differently, can fail regularly. I mean...come on...we know these things as common knowledge.
Plus, GM's inventory numbers are way too high. They need to lower their supply of vehicles, that way, they have more availible operating cash to stregthen their balance sheet.
And how about the 6,000 some dealers in the US alone? Talk about spreading thin... how on earth do you expect a dealer or GM to make money when a person can go to three different chevy dealerships in town and everyone beats the last ones price by $300 each? By the time it stops, there's no gross profit left in the deal. There's no way for GM to afford to operate. Volkswagen has 600 dealerships in the US. And it's proving to work. Not to mention they're outselling GM and have been, even though they have one-tenth the amount of Dealerships.
There's so much more to this than just the Union's, and the CEO's. There's so much more to the auto business than you realize when you're just an outsider looking in. So please, before you decide to talk out your *** like you know everything about something you don't even do, think again.
Sit down, Shut up, and get ready for a bumpy F*cking ride. Dumba$$.
they pay a guy 70k for 4 lug nuts so the cars wheels wont fall off... nobody will take less pay bc of the unions
can u get a base kia for 12k? no u caN GET IT FOR 8K... why? they have no unions so they paid less.... we have a BMW plant down here, they only pay about $18 an hour ($52560 a year)... again no unions in the south. why do they still cost more when they pay employees less? because they use higher quality material thus BMW>GM
and the gov't might provide healthcare b4 long... thats socialism not democracy
i do agree tht GM pays CEOs too much and they have too many dealerships.
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