Welfare-Important Issue?

[98v6]

In my book it's not, because neither candidate can do jack to change it. The 'pubs don't have enough power in the house to do anything too drastic, and the demos don't want to change it. Public opinion stays pretty much the same over time, and it's been the extreme minority that support actually increasing it, so why is this an important issue?

[Machiavelli]

Welfare needs further reform in the same way it was reformed under the Clinton years.
And before any of you uninformed, knee jerk reaction republicans say a thing about Clinton not making worthwhile reforms to welfare, do your research.

[95fbirdkid]

I agree its not going to get changed anytime soon, but i disagree that that makes it unimportant.

I think there needs to be some serious reforms done, I'm tired of paying to feed some lazy black family's crack babies.

[Machiavelli]

Originally posted by 95fbirdkid:
I agree its not going to get changed anytime soon, but i disagree that that makes it unimportant.

I think there needs to be some serious reforms done, I'm tired of paying to feed some lazy black family's crack babies.

Interesting you say that... considering Blacks are not an overwhelming majority of welfare recipients.
As I said, ignorant Republicans keep your mouth shut till you do some research.

[Drone51]

wow you would know first hand in all living in the US right.

[Drone51]

I live in the getto when I go to the store just about every african american or hispanic has food stamps or whatever it is they use.

[Machiavelli]

Originally posted by Drone51:
I live in the getto when I go to the store just about every african american or hispanic has food stamps or whatever it is they use.

Not all welfare recipients live in urban areas. And you already said Hispanics... which, last time I checked, were not black? I guess I could be wrong... being from Italy and all... lol.

[95fbirdkid]

As I said, ignorant Republicans keep your mouth shut till you do some research.

ohh i'm sorry your highness, i guess i'll wait for you to tell me when and what to post next time [img]graemlins/twak.gif[/img]

considering Blacks are not an overwhelming majority of welfare recipients.

sorry, i'm tired of paying for poor white people's crack babies too :rolleyes:

[ June 02, 2004, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: 95fbirdkid ]

[Machiavelli]

Originally posted by 95fbirdkid:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />As I said, ignorant Republicans keep your mouth shut till you do some research.

ohh i'm sorry your highness, i guess i'll wait for you to tell me when and what to post next time [img]graemlins/twak.gif[/img]

considering Blacks are not an overwhelming majority of welfare recipients.

sorry, i'm tired of paying for poor white people's crack babies too :rolleyes: </font>[/QUOTE]Thank you, my loyal subject for your humbleness.

And its more like meth babies when youre talking about poor white trash; try to keep up with these things by watching COPS once in a while, thanks.

[Machiavelli]

As a member of a civilization you have a social obligation to care for those who are unable to care for themselves.
However, allowing people to just live off of other people's money for their whole life is not right. Nor is it right to reward people for being lazy. Clinton made several steps to reform the welfare system so that it makes more sense - before 1995 or so, Welfare was even a bigger mess.

[95fbirdkid]

As a member of a civilization you have a social obligation to care for those who are unable to care for themselves.

I shouldnt have that obligation, their problems arnt my fault, i shouldnt be responsible for fixing them. I'm not against helping people, dont get me wrong, I'm against being required to help them.

and I watch cops almost daily ;)

[wannabe]

Without getting into whether I think welfare is good or not... I think that it's such an important issue because so many Americans feel so strongly one way or the other about it. Many people feel that gov't has a responsibility to make sure that every single American has food on his plate. Others feel that individual responsibility is the more American tradition. Either way, I think it's sort of like the abortion issue in that very few voters are ambivelant about it... they either love it or hate it.

[Machiavelli]

Originally posted by 95fbirdkid:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />As a member of a civilization you have a social obligation to care for those who are unable to care for themselves.

I shouldnt have that obligation, their problems arnt my fault, i shouldnt be responsible for fixing them. I'm not against helping people, dont get me wrong, I'm against being required to help them.

and I watch cops almost daily ;) </font>[/QUOTE]Some fathers dont think they have an obligation to take care of their children... but they do.
We dont have an obligation to take care of any one person.. but if the more fortunate make some sacrifices to help the less fortunate our society, over all, will be better off. Im not talking about communism - more along the lines of Locke and the Wealth of Nations. You have read that book, I trust... ?

[wannabe]

Originally posted by Machiavelli:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 95fbirdkid:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />As a member of a civilization you have a social obligation to care for those who are unable to care for themselves.

I shouldnt have that obligation, their problems arnt my fault, i shouldnt be responsible for fixing them. I'm not against helping people, dont get me wrong, I'm against being required to help them.

and I watch cops almost daily ;) </font>[/QUOTE]Some fathers dont think they have an obligation to take care of their children... but they do.
We dont have an obligation to take care of any one person.. but if the more fortunate make some sacrifices to help the less fortunate our society, over all, will be better off. Im not talking about communism - more along the lines of Locke and the Wealth of Nations. You have read that book, I trust... ? </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with 95fbirdkid here. I agree that from a moral standpoint the more fortunate have a responsibility to help out the less fortunate. I don't think that anyone here will argue that one should not give what he can. I think the problem here is that we are REQUIRED by government to give, and that is what bothers most people. That we are required to give and that the amount is set not by us but by government is the problem. Government has no place in forcing charity. John Locke would agree that government cannot force a man to do anything simply because it is moral; it must have a more compelling interest than that. And is there really any need to go to a straw-man argument and get pretentious about who's read what? Let's keep this civil and about this issue.

[95fbirdkid]

Some fathers dont think they have an obligation to take care of their children... but they do.

Like I said, I didnt create the poor, the fathers created the children. I have no problem helping people, like wannabe said, my problem is with it being required and the amount decided by the government.