Energy prices

[camaro_speedemon]

I'm 100% convinced that energy companies are using Katrina and Rita as an excuse to grossly gouge consumers with ludacris prices.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGG9F16KE1.DTL

70% more?!?! It's not even the heating season yet, so there really is no demand yet, but somehow it's going to cause a huge spike in gas costs.

Only 1/5 of the natural gas rigs are in the gulf, which is less then 25%. Energy costs are getting out of hand.

[Dan M]

1/5 is less than 21%, too.

[camaro_speedemon]

Originally posted by Dan M:
1/5 is less than 21%, too.

Beh, i didn't feel like doing the math.

Actually, in the article, I just saw it said production is only down 5%.

[Marty85]

This Sh!t is rediculous. Im about ready for someone to go crazy and start shooting at some people to get these prices down. Around here our electricity bills went up 7% yesterday due to higher costs of coal and natural gas toward our power provider TVA. Something has to happen sooner or later.

[JusFlyinBy]

Thats pretty interesting. That they are blaming it on the hurricanes that is... I just read that the reason the cost of natural gas went up so much is because of our high demand on energy this past summer. It caused us to use a lot more natural gas to produce power then usual, depleting a good amount and causing our prices to raise. So which excuse is it? Sounds like everyone is full of ****.

Oil companies are making record profits, while the government is raking in all the extra cash on taxes on fuel so... natural gas might as well hop on the bandwagon right? Cost of living goes up, wages stay level and don't increase with inflation (just like the past 30 years), and in the end the middle class gets screwed.

[12secondv6]

They are just looking for some reason to raise prices..... they found it.... damn bastards.

I am slowly researching to find better ways to improve the effeciency of the house and heating/ electricity.

[Resident_Geek]

Supply and demand, folks. Demand goes up, prices go up. Supply goes down, prices go up. Both have happened. Thus, a price increase.

[Infernal]

The bulk of it is supply and demand, but there is definitely gouging going on. Look at the variance in gas prices between stations. I don't know about your area, but last month during the worst part of the "crisis", 93 premium was to be found anywhere from $3.69 to $4.35 at stations within a few square miles.

Yes, economic conditions of the area the station is in play a part, but it's strange that I can buy a coke at either station for $1.25, but their fuel prices vary by as much as 20%.

[camaro_speedemon]

Originally posted by Resident_Geek:
Supply and demand, folks. Demand goes up, prices go up. Supply goes down, prices go up. Both have happened. Thus, a price increase.

Yea, but they purposly control supply to keep prices high.

[Resident_Geek]

Originally posted by camaro_speedemon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Resident_Geek:
Supply and demand, folks. Demand goes up, prices go up. Supply goes down, prices go up. Both have happened. Thus, a price increase.

Yea, but they purposly control supply to keep prices high. </font>[/QUOTE]Any documentation of that?

[camaro_speedemon]

Originally posted by Resident_Geek:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by camaro_speedemon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Resident_Geek:
Supply and demand, folks. Demand goes up, prices go up. Supply goes down, prices go up. Both have happened. Thus, a price increase.

Yea, but they purposly control supply to keep prices high. </font>[/QUOTE]Any documentation of that? </font>[/QUOTE]It's funny you ask, I just read an article about this today. About how oil companies closed 24 refineries in the US to keep the cost of gasoline high.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4296812.stm

In the 1980s and 90s, the fashion for American refineries was not to build more, but to close existing ones.

In 2001, Senator Ron Wyden authored a comprehensive report on the state of the US refining industry.

He noted that between 1995 and 2001 there were a total of 24 refinery closures in the United States.

These lost America around 830,000 barrels per day of gasoline. That is about the same amount of capacity lost to Katrina alone.

No new refineries

Wyden uncovered several memos and internal documents from major oil companies. These charted the way that capacity in the US refining industry was reduced to maintain higher profits.

[V6Bob]

There are two problems here. One is a minor annoyance, the other devastating to the country.

The minor one is that energy companies screw around a bit to build profits. Minor annoyance.

The other is that worldwide demand is overruning supply. This is getting worse and is the bigger mover of price, certainly in the long run.

And, since we've organized our economy and how we live around cheap oil, we're in for a major economic disaster. If you don't live to see it (unlikely) your children surely will. The chance that we'll start doing the right things before it's too late is small.

Good book by a smart guy who knows what he's talking about:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

[camaro_speedemon]

Originally posted by V6Bob:
There are two problems here. One is a minor annoyance, the other devastating to the country.

The minor one is that energy companies screw around a bit to build profits. Minor annoyance.

The other is that worldwide demand is overruning supply. This is getting worse and is the bigger mover of price, certainly in the long run.

And, since we've organized our economy and how we live around cheap oil, we're in for a major economic disaster. If you don't live to see it (unlikely) your children surely will. The chance that we'll start doing the right things before it's too late is small.

Good book by a smart guy who knows what he's talking about:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

I don't believe that global demand has as much to do with this as everyone says. If needed OPEC can magically produce more oil.

The problem with finding alternative fuels, is oil companys did everything they could to discourage/prevent that kind of research. Back in the 80's Smokey Yunick designed an engine that could see something like 70MPG and make increadible amounts of HP doing it. The oil companies snatched up the patent and buried the design.

[V6Bob]

"If needed OPEC can magically produce more oil."

True 20 years ago. Not true now. The major reasons are that the oil fields have been largely developed and demand from China and India has gone through the roofs.

The book I cited will give you the _facts_ about oil supply and demand at present and for the future. But many people don't believe the facts, which is why we're headed for a very deep hole.