Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

[Bandit127]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

i think hell froze over, you and i just agreed on something for the first time

Sh!t happens.


On-topic. I rarely ever agree with Mogo, but thats because he, in my opinion, views the world in a completely different way because of the chicago area. Whereas, in small town Iowa, people are completely different, thus I can hardly ever see where he's coming from with his views. Its not that he's wrong, its just people here will give the shirt off their back, whereas chicago you'll get only but a bullet in the back.

I view this as a police brutality and a case of secondary manslaughter. If the two guys had the man held down then theres no reason for a tazer and the tazer is only to be used to subdue a fleeing/resisting suspect, and is wrong again because he was subdued.

But I am no officer of law enforcement, I was not there, I know nothing of what went on in his head and I know nothing of what it takes to live in such a place. Therefore, this is just another opinion on just another forum. Truth is theres nothing more that can be done.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

if you look at the definition of both manslaughter and 2nd degree murder, this falls under manslaughter...it happened heat of the moment, and you could say that it was provoked as there was a struggle while he was on the ground, which caused the officer to pull his gun.

Now, whether he meant to pull his gun or his taser, only he will know. There was a trial that happened in which the judge (dont know if there was a jury) and they saw the video, listened to the cop and I am sure witnesses and have come to there conclusion.

You/we are only hearing what the media wants you to hear...this makes for a great controversial story. You/we have no idea what was being said as the guy was on the ground, hell, for all you know he may of said he had a "bomb" (not likely, but just saying, you only have a portion of the story) The cop may have threatened to taser him, and may have very well been trying to pull his taser rather then his gun.

The only way it would be 2nd degree is if he intentionally pulled his gun and shot to kill. Now, he shot him in the back, that is not a kill shot, it just so happened that this guy was fatally wounded. If he had drew his gun and shot him in the back of the head, then yes it would be 2nd degree murder.

[crazygrrrl]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

Mehserle wrote to the Grant family and said that he meant to taser Oscar Grant, not shoot him. The Grant family will most likely take this case to a higher court. Sentencing is going to be on Aug 6, and I hope that Oakland doesn't get any riots like last night. I wasn't there in the action, but it was like war after it got dark. Troublemakers from other cities joined in on the protest and then they started breaking into businesses, looting, and setting dumpsters on fire. It was crazy.

I was curious to see what you all thought about this case. Most of the people I know said it should have been murder. Even my cousin, who was an Alameda county sheriff said that Mehserle had no reason to taser Grant. He was already pinned down by 2 other officers.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

Like vanbibber said, it's impossible to know exactly what was going through that cop's head when he pulled the trigger. The closest anyone got to finding out was during that trial, and we weren't there. I think it's more naive to judge him based on a couple news articles and blurry videos and pretend to come up with a verdict more appropriate than that settled upon in court.

Mogobs I don't think you and I will ever agree on anything, ever. Ever.

Again, my judgement will have absolutely no bearing on his future, the victims future, the families future, or the future of California law. Its purely for entertainment purposes. But for the record, I don't typically judge or make decisions based on a couple news articles and a blurry video, I tend to get all the information I can. Google does wonders for such things.

As for me and you not agreeing on anything ever, I could not care less than I do right now at this juncture. Im sitting here shaking a bag of cat food over my moms cat, with more thought put into it than agreeing with you. Its actually more important to me to go into the bathroom, take a dump, and learn what the ingredients are on the back of the shampoo bottles than agreeing with you.

You're a nub, welcome to the site.;)

[Heywood]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

You're a nub, welcome to the site.;)

That is by far the nicest thing I've ever seen you say to anyone, ever. Forgive me I'm a little choked up at the moment.

[vanbibber]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

Mehserle wrote to the Grant family and said that he meant to taser Oscar Grant, not shoot him. The Grant family will most likely take this case to a higher court. Sentencing is going to be on Aug 6, and I hope that Oakland doesn't get any riots like last night. I wasn't there in the action, but it was like war after it got dark. Troublemakers from other cities joined in on the protest and then they started breaking into businesses, looting, and setting dumpsters on fire. It was crazy.

I was curious to see what you all thought about this case. Most of the people I know said it should have been murder. Even my cousin, who was an Alameda county sheriff said that Mehserle had no reason to taser Grant. He was already pinned down by 2 other officers.

what the hell for? the guy is still going to get probably 14 years for it from what i read. which is a insane amount of time for an accident to begin with. this wouldnt even be a big deal in the first place if it was a white on white or black on black case. everyone wants to get up in arms because the victim was black and the cop just happened to be white. there would have been even half the news coverage if it were. but as usual people want to make it a racially charged thing so that they have an excuse to riot or pull a race card to use against cops.

and if im being honest about the whole situation, maybe if the idiots werent doing something they shouldnt have been in the first place, none of this would have escalated to a point where the cops had to be there.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

Its just can't be a murder, because it simply wasn't a premeditated act. Thats what separates murder from manslaughter, premeditation. The cop didn't think about shooting him before it happened, none of the sources said as such. He didn't put thought into killing him, it was just an accident, a heat of the moment instance. Murder is not the appropriate charge for it.

As serious and disturbing of a case it was, the law is whats absolute. Its definition can only be challenged by a state supreme court or the US supreme court. This crime is not easy one to deal with, but the definition, by California law, is manslaughter, not murder. Definitely not a cold blooded instance IMO.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

Its just can't be a murder, because it simply wasn't a premeditated act. Thats what separates murder from manslaughter, premeditation. The cop didn't think about shooting him before it happened, none of the sources said as such. He didn't put thought into killing him, it was just an accident, a heat of the moment instance. Murder is not the appropriate charge for it.

As serious and disturbing of a case it was, the law is whats absolute. Its definition can only be challenged by a state supreme court or the US supreme court. This crime is not easy one to deal with, but the definition, by California law, is manslaughter, not murder. Definitely not a cold blooded instance IMO.

actually only 1st degree murder is premeditated...2nd degree murder is not...2nd degree murder is also when you kill someone in the heat of the moment, but you do so intentionally.

An example would be, you go home after work and you find your wife in bed with another man...so you kill the guy...you didnt "plan" on killing anyone, it was in the heat of the moment...but you stabbed or shot him with the intent to kill...

Now in the case of the cop, if he meant to pull his taser and subdue the victim, it is manslaugter...like I said, the guy was not shot in the head, it was not an attempt to kill him at all...a shot to the back is not a kill shot..he shot him where you would normally taser a person...it was an accident. Therefore it is manslaughter...it's pretty cut and dry...I don't see why it would be 2nd degree at all...

and I do agree that they are trying to pull the racial card...its b.s an accident is an accident...and like stated...if they werent involved in this crap to begin with...this wouldnt of happened...